MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Wednesday, April 16, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 51.0° F  Overcast and Windy
Collapse Photo Bar

Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightmare

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightmare

Postby manoletters » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:23 pm

Say, did any of you notice there has been a near-total news blackout about Fukushima Dai'ichi, whose radiation emissions have spiked exponentially in the last few weeks, at least according to various sources. Ever since TEPCO started to removed the hopelessly damaged fuel rods, that is. Just decided it couldn't hurt to try to raise awareness. Not that there's much that can be done with TEPCO, rather than the Japanese and other world governments in control of the "clean-up."
http://enenews.com/cbs-tepco-says-fuel- ... icult-in-f
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:35 pm

Given the prevailing winds and ocean currents, most of the radiation ends up on the North American continent's west shore. Some small parts of Japan are not being inhabited, and a somewhat larger area is pretty much only old people because it's deemed too dangerous to expose children to those levels of radiation. But mostly, the stuff washed/blew out to sea, toward us.

Nobody's talking about it because a) there's not a lot that can be done; and b) the nuclear industry doesn't want you to think about it too hard.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 10909
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:33 pm

One thing's for sure: TEPCO is clearly not up to the task. The Japanese government isn't either, but would be able to do a somewhat better job, especially if other world governments got involved. Radioisotopes from Fukushima have been detected all over the N. American continent, including in Toronto, for example. But you're right of course, inasmuch as the worst of it is being emitted into the atmosphere over the Pacific, and in that ocean's waters too.
Things could be worse - Fukushima could have been reduced to rubble by an earthquake centered more directly over Northern Honshu. Had that happened, we would have witnessed the so-called China Syndrome, probably endangering/killing all mammalian life on Earth within a short period of time.
http://netc.com/
Last edited by manoletters on Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:04 pm

I'd argue one of the main reasons Fukushima doesn't make the news more often is that there's really not any news to report.

The radioactivity is being carefully monitored and there's no reason to believe it's causing anybody in North America any harm. Chernobyl remains the worst nuclear accident in history and we've all been living with the consequences of that disaster for almost 3 decades now. In a nutshell: It's really only dangerous to those living nearby.

Skeptoid has done nice work evaluating and debunking various myths and fears surrounding Fukushima.
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:37 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:I'd argue one of the main reasons Fukushima doesn't make the news more often is that there's really not any news to report.

The radioactivity is being carefully monitored and there's no reason to believe it's causing anybody in North America any harm. Chernobyl remains the worst nuclear accident in history and we've all been living with the consequences of that disaster for almost 3 decades now. In a nutshell: It's really only dangerous to those living nearby.

Skeptoid has done nice work evaluating and debunking various myths and fears surrounding Fukushima.


So you'd be quite satisfied eating the blue fin (or yelow fin, or ANY fin) tuna from the Pacific? Or any fish from that ocean? Considering the hundreds of tons of Tritium-laced radioactive water that's being flushed into the Pacific on an ongoing basis, I think I'll hold off. And let's not forget it's very likely that significant amounts of Strontium-90, Cesium-137 and Iodine-131 were (continue to be?) released into the atmosphere in the wake of the March 11, 2011 catastrophe. Maybe some Plutonium, too. Remember, Metropolitan Edison assured the public there was nothing to worry about at Three Mile Island in '79. But there were in fact substantial releases of radioisotopes in March/April of that year from the Middletown, PA plant.
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:06 pm

manoletters wrote:So you'd be quite satisfied eating the blue fin (or yelow fin, or ANY fin) tuna from the Pacific? Or any fish from that ocean?
Yep, I sure would. Yummo!

The link I provided discusses this issue and links to other sources with even more info. Did you read it?
Here's another link chock-full of info (the fish stuff is specifically addressed about halfway down the page.)
And for a little perspective, this graphic is well worth examining.

Look, Fukushima was a major disaster. It caused lots of real environmental damage, it's far from being resolved, and it's rightfully sparked discussions about nuclear reactor safety. But panic is hardly necessary. If you want to choose not to believe the science that's your choice, but unless you live somewhere near the plant, you're worrying (and worrying others) about nothing.
At the very least, stop getting your info from completely unreliable sources like http://netc.com/
(As noted in my initial link, "The name 'Nuclear Emergency Tracking Center' sounds a lot like a government regulatory body. It’s so incredibly the opposite of that. The website is a slapped together map of the supposed radiation levels at nuclear sites around the world. It’s got no indication where it’s getting its information or what it means, but it does have a fee based service that will alert you to radiation spikes anywhere in the world. And Bible quotes.")
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:02 pm

Yes indeed, "Professor." It's as if we should all be greatly relieved when people such as you say, "Trust us, we're the experts." The "experts" also told the public that cigarettes were benign, maybe even good for you. They LIED. The nuclear industry almost always says, "The public was never in any danger," if they even concede there was a leak at all, of which there have been hundreds. The atomic power industry is INFAMOUS for its lying.
http://biocatastrophe.blogspot.com/2011 ... -data.html
The truth is, NO amount of radiation, especially radiation spewing continually from several damged/destroyed reactors, is harmless. Not to mention the spent fuel rods at Fuku stored above ground that were/are hot as hell. Not to mention the severe problems resulting from the removal of rods from those reactors. Fukushima is the "gift that just keeps on giving." Giving massive amounts of fallout, that is. You're really deluding yourself if you believe the Nuke Industry's false assurances. But go ahead, eat the Pacific tuna. And drink the Kool Aid while your at it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+ ... B450%3B253
Last edited by manoletters on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:03 pm

manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:22 pm

"The CBS crew was able to watch the delicate and dangerous work of removing some of the 1,500 radioactive fuel rod assemblies. If the rods break, they could release more radioactive gases.

There's an analogy that removing these rods is like removing a cigarette from a crushed pack.

'Take that analogy,' TEPCO engineer Masayuki Ono said in Japanese, 'and imagine that the cigarette in that box is lit.'

Ono said they have removed 15 percent of the fuel from Reactor 4. But it will be far more difficult to retrieve fuel from the other three reactors that melted down. Those are so radioactive that the technology to dismantle them does not exist yet."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fukushima-c ... r-decades/
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:07 pm

Comparing working scientists to shills for cigarette companies is pretty ludicrous. The info from the links I've posted does not come from anyone within the nuclear industry and again, if you'd bothered to read them, you'd know that nobody I linked to accepts what TEPCO says at face value. So the idea that only nuclear industry spokespeople are saying what I am is simply untrue.

That first map you posted a link to was explained in BOTH of the links I provided (I'm still pretty certain you haven't bothered to read any of it, as you've already made up your mind that you want to believe we're all doomed.) I have no idea what the second one is supposed to be (especially as it's too small to read) and I suspect you don't either. It just looks scary and that's enough for you.

Your claim that "no amount of radiation" is harmless is really all the proof anyone should need that you are just spreading baseless fears. You're surrounded by radiation. Radiation is constantly arriving from space. The Earth emits radiation. The human body emits radiation. Again, did you even bother to look at this graphic I posted? Why anyone is so desperate to be in as much fear as you're choosing to be is beyond me, but you're waaaaaaay overreacting to this. Again: Fukushima was a major disaster that has caused a lot of environmental damage and will continue to pose serious risks well into the future. But it's not destroying the ocean, let alone the world. (300 tons of radioactive water per day sounds like a lot, to be sure, but there are somewhere around 5,920,382,409,178,000,000 tons of water in the Pacific!)
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:37 pm

Answer this simple question, Professor:
How much Plutonium 238 was, has/been, is being released from Fukushima? Isn't it true that a quantity of Plutonium 238 about the size of a softball is capable of causing millions, if not BILLIONS of cases of cancer if distributed evenly over the planet? Do you know how much? Of course not; nobody does. But it's indisputable that Plutonium, the most toxic substance on Earth, has been released. For that matter, how much radioactive Strontium 90 (which builds up in the human body in a fashion similar to the way calcium does) and Cesium 137 have been spewed into the atmosphere? Do you know? Of course not, yet you insist the US Public here on the North American continent is in little if any danger.
http://enenews.com/nrc-plutonium-releas ... e-releases
Last edited by manoletters on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:49 pm

How much Iodine-131 has been emitted into the atmosphere? How many cases of thyroid cancer might that cause? A very large quantity has been emitted, that's for sure. How much Uranium has leaked from the damaged reactors? And all told, 50,000 trillion becquerels of radiation had been released already by the date of this April 2011 interview with MIchio Kaku; he knows a good deal about the subject of nuclear contamination. A "Level 7 nuclear accident," Kaku labeled it, which he does say was less than Chernobyl, but this disaster has been ONGOING, with the potential for emissions that are INDISPUTABLY catastrophic. Is it not true that three of the four reactors there have actually MELTED DOWN? Looking to the future, What about the potential for another earthquake/tsunami?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STSmFZeE50E
Last edited by manoletters on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:02 pm

Professor:
According to this source, Plutonium from Fukushima has traveled around the world. Do you dispute this?
http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/12/ ... veled.html
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby manoletters » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:11 pm

What about the potential for deadly radioactive steam coming up from the ground below Fuku, even as we engage in this amiable back-and-forth? It would seem the possibility of the core burning into the ground below the plant is extremely likely. And bear in mind, Thom Hartmann is known far and wide as one of the most sober and intelligent men in the radio business:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz1j4IHcsP4
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Fukushima fuel removal a radioactive, logistical nightma

Postby narcoleptish » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:48 pm

Okay, I was bored so I started reading this.

Come on Mano. The guy in the video in this link with the dirty white T-shirt, hand-printed in black magic marker, rambling on in front of a pond?
manoletters wrote:http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/12/ ... veled.html


We're listening to that guy?

I was still bored so I did a little search on the Nuclear Emergency Tracking Center LLC http://netc.com/contactus.htm that lists a PO box for an address. And found them here....
http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/corps/searc ... mber=&cmd=

...apparently operating out of a mister Harlan Yother's living room.

Then I threw his name into youtube and found this from a mister Evan Yother:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK1_tPfugBQ

You see, I can believe that the Fukushima disaster is probably worse than anyone is letting on. I also like a good conspiracy theory now and then. The problem is you can't find anyone to talk about those things that has any ability to act like they're not half nuts. Or just out to make a quick buck selling radiation monitoring equipment that looks like they built it out of an Arduino kit.

You've gotta get some better sources.
narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Next

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kurt_w and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


FacebookcommentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar