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CPAC and Donald Downs

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CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:14 pm

It isn't just Mitt Romney and Donald Trump who have been invited to this year's Conservative Political Action Conference, so has our own Donald, UW Poli Sci professor Donald Downs. He is being recognized for his fight for free speech. The selfsame Downs was one of three from the UW academic staff who objected to the president speaking on campus. (One of the others is the spouse of a self-described moderate who posts on these pages.)
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby SlayerDave » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:30 pm

A deserving recipient. Too bad it had to come at CPAC.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Meade » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:51 am

Henry Vilas wrote:He is being recognized for his fight for free speech.

Hen V had no idea free speech is a conservative value.

Henry Vilas wrote:Downs was one of three from the UW academic staff who objected to the president speaking on campus.

Is that what they were objecting to? Hen V thinks so. Does Hen V read for comprehension? Apparently not.

For those who do, here are Professor Downs's recent publications:

Donald Downs, Arms and the University: Military Presence and the Civic Education of Non-Military Students (Cambridge University Press, 2012)
Donald Downs, “The Pendulum Swings: The Fall and Return of ROTC to Elite Campuses, and Why It Matters,” The Forum, Vol. 9, no. 3 (2011).
http://www.bepress.com/forum/vol9/iss3/art6/
Donald Downs “Watching Out for Number One,” Wisconsin Interest, December 2011
Donald Downs Essay in “Symposium,” “The Danish Cartoon Controversy and the Challenges of Multicultural Politics: A Discussion of The Cartoons That Shook the World, By Jytte Klausen.” In Perspectives on Politics, September 2011.
Donald Downs "ROTC and the Future of Liberal Education," Chronicle of Higher Education, The Chronicle Review, May 15, 2009.
http://chronicle.com/free/v55/i36/36b00801.htm
Donald Downs "DuPont Circle Diversiphily," 22 Academic Questions (2009), pp. 207-225.
Donald Downs "Academic Freedom: What It Is, What It Isn't, and How to Tell the Difference" John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy, April 2009.
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=2164


And his key scholarly works:

Nazis in Skokie: Freedom, Community and the First Amendment

The New Politics of Pornography

More than Victims: Battered Women, the Syndrome Society, and the Law

Cornell `69: Liberalism and the Crisis of the American University

Restoring Free Speech and Liberty on Campus

"Arms and the University: Military Presence and the Civic Education of Non-Military Students"
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby bdog » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:55 am

Tsk tsk Meade, all that will not fit on a bumper sticker.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:13 am

Downs, et al. objected to the president speaking on campus because it cost money and some classes were moved or postponed. I doubt if he would have made the same objections if the former president was the one who was speaking.

The ulltimate conservative view on free speech is summarized in the Citizens United decision.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby SlayerDave » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:58 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Downs, et al. objected to the president speaking on campus because it cost money and some classes were moved or postponed. I doubt if he would have made the same objections if the former president was the one who was speaking.


Oh, I'm quite sure he would have. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Hell, have you even heard Downs speak and/or read his work?

The ulltimate conservative view on free speech is summarized in the Citizens United decision.


Please Henry, enlighten us. You are clearly outraged about this; describe why you think Prof. Downs is undeserving of an award for protecting freedom of speech?

I'd note here that Downs was a strong defender of Bill Cronon in that brouhaha a few years back.

Again Henry, describe why the guy doesn't deserve the award?
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:19 am

It boils down to who is giving the award. CPAC members are often alligned with those who have a history of suppressing rights (voter rights, for example).

I see Walker also spoke to that group.

"Real reform doesn't happen in our nation's capital. It happens in statehouses all over the country," Walker said, adding the nation's 30 Republican governors were enacting "real reform" around the nation.

"In states, to be successful, we have to be optimistic...

Like your optimism for new job creation in Wisconsin? Or shady redistricting? Or attempts at voter suppression?
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby bdog » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:59 am

Henry comes clean.

It's not about CPAC or Donald Downs.

It's about Scott Walker.

Surprise surprise.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby SlayerDave » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:00 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:It boils down to who is giving the award. CPAC members are often alligned with those who have a history of suppressing rights (voter rights, for example).


Well sure, as I said in my first post:

...Too bad it had to come at CPAC.


But you're flailing mightily to come up with a reason why he doesn't deserve the award, and now, lacking such reason, have settled in to your comfortable and predictable sweet spot of bitching about Scott Walker. Well done.

Donald Downs has done a commendable job standing up for the speech rights of both liberals and conservatives, and deserves recognition for it, not your whining about tangentially related matters.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:49 pm

Then why did Downs object to the free speech rights of the president? If his reasoning for protesting against Obama's appearance was so compelling, why did only two other UW faculty members join him?
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Meade » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:14 pm

Whining and flailing. Nobody does it better than Hen.

Logically, to Hen V, only if more than a few people protest the closure of campus buildings and the cancellation of classes so that Governor Walker can create a dramatic reelection event would it be compellingly objectionable.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Walker speaking on campus would be great theater. Too bad Mitt never tried to do so.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby SlayerDave » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:04 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Then why did Downs object to the free speech rights of the president?


Lol. This is a 4th graders conception of free speech: "I can speak when I want, wherever I want".

Of course, that's not what the constitution mandates. I think it was fair to ask if the same courtesies would have been extended to other candidates, consistent with viewpoint neutrality, and if it was really the learning experience UW claimed it to be, rather than a campaign event. I think I come down on the other side of Downs on that one, but it's hardly anti-free speech to question the university's motives there.

If his reasoning for protesting against Obama's appearance was so compelling, why did only two other UW faculty members join him?


I think at this point it's worth noting that the 3rd professor to sign the letter which irks you so was Ken Mayer, another good guy, who just happens to have testified against the redistricting plans and voter id proposals that you despise so much.

Maybe *gasp* his and Downs objections to what was a pretty major disruption to campus life were principled, rather than nefarious?

Stop being a hack for one second and look at some evidence, for crying outloud.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby pjbogart » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:59 pm

I can't think of any good reason, including costs, to prevent a sitting President from giving a speech at your University. Even considering that the speech was a self-serving campaign speech, such an opportunity for the students to see democracy in action surely outweighs any temporary disruption of campus routine.

The very fact that Downs was invited to CPAC tells me that his position was unreasonable, given that "unreasonable" is practically a requirement for attendance.
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Re: CPAC and Donald Downs

Postby bdog » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:28 pm

pjbogart wrote:The very fact that Downs was invited to CPAC tells me that his position was unreasonable, given that "unreasonable" is practically a requirement for attendance.

Wrong thread Peej.
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