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Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:23 am

wack wack wrote:
bcs89 wrote:it is quite possible that they had a very good reason for so many guns on site - perhaps they were used as “base” for their hunting group, it is not uncommon for a group who hunt together to pool their resources and purchase one gun safe (they are not cheap) where all guns are kept...

So far as your last paragraph, what if they did know he had the guns? So what?


Loose lips sink ships.

What if they knew he had the guns? A fairly unusual coed robbery crew of tender years and little experience just randomly stumbled into a goldmine with 30 guns in it? And you ask what if?


Again, making assumptions then assessing culpability based on them.
Sorry, not sure what you mean by "And you ask what if?

If I've not been clear on this point, here it is again. I think we need some serious changes to our gun laws. What I don't think is that anyone who owns a gun (or guns) should be open to scorn, ridicule and contempt, especially after such a traumatic event as this, simply for that fact. Name another group of people who should be judged as a whole, by the actions of a few? That is a very dangerous path to start down.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby david cohen » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:28 am

I'm guessing there was more than just cash in that safe. What does 30 guns, a safe full of cash and four brazen home invaders have in common? Hint: it's not Tide detergent.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:30 am

My intent here is not to advocate for gun control legislation or against the gun rights movement, only to examine the rhetoric of the pro-gun crowd a little. So much of what we've heard from them doesn't really resonate in a case like this.

I don't know what smarter gun laws would look like, to be honest. Certainly nothing about this particular case indicates that it would be any different if assault weapons or 30-round clips were illegal.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:33 am

Beaver wrote:Jason makes a great point. A cache of weapons didn't help the homeowners. A great example of why we need less guns and more gun control.



I agree with you, but where does it say this was the reason the home owner had the guns? Why is it out of the question that perhaps the home owner used the guns for hunting and would have been abhorred to turn them on a person - even in self defense? I'm not saying that is the case, I have no idea his feelings about the use of guns, but to rule that out and replace it with a "he was a fanatical NRA nut-job who got what he deserved" , as some seem to think, does not seem right to me.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:41 am

rabble wrote:
bcs89 wrote:Nice world you got there rabble.

Yeah. It's a world where kids get killed in grade school and people yell "We've got to arm the teachers!"

I'm not happy here either. Wish I had your sunny disposition.


Again, I agree we need to do something about the gun laws in this country - but I don't think attacking anyone who owns a gun is the way to go about it. Has any one in your family ever owned a gun? What if this happened to them and people turned on your family member (yes, I know, no one in your family would have so many guns - the number is not my point, and could have a logical non nut-job explanation) .

I resent your accusation I have a "sunny disposition" .
Personal attacks are not necessary.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby kurt_w » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:44 am

bcs, I think you're misunderstanding the point that jason et al. are making. It's not to criticize the people who were robbed. It's to criticize the argument that certain pro-gun folks have been making around here (that the only way to be safe is to have lots of guns).

If this story had been one about a family with no guns whose home was invaded and robbed, you can be damn sure that certain posters would be holding it up as proof that "gun-free zones" and "a disarmed population" are setting people up to be victimized.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby Sandi » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:51 am

Beaver wrote:Jason makes a great point. A cache of weapons didn't help the homeowners. A great example of why we need less guns and more gun control.


Stop lights at a busy intersection didn't stop someone from running the light and causing an accidents A great example why we need less cars and more stop lights.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby HawkHead » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:58 am

Sandi wrote:
Beaver wrote:Jason makes a great point. A cache of weapons didn't help the homeowners. A great example of why we need less guns and more gun control.


Stop lights at a busy intersection didn't stop someone from running the light and causing an accidents A great example why we need less cars and more stop lights.


I thought you weren't coming back and that Dane County needed an enema?
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:06 pm

If only we had some sort of control on people who would run those traffic lights. Some way to identify them and at least test them somehow or other, so as to minimize this traffic light running problem we have.

Nah. The traffic light runner lobby would never allow that.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby wack wack » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:07 pm

bcs89 wrote:
wack wack wrote:
bcs89 wrote:it is quite possible that they had a very good reason for so many guns on site - perhaps they were used as “base” for their hunting group, it is not uncommon for a group who hunt together to pool their resources and purchase one gun safe (they are not cheap) where all guns are kept...

So far as your last paragraph, what if they did know he had the guns? So what?


Loose lips sink ships.

What if they knew he had the guns? A fairly unusual coed robbery crew of tender years and little experience just randomly stumbled into a goldmine with 30 guns in it? And you ask what if?


Again, making assumptions then assessing culpability based on them.
Sorry, not sure what you mean by "And you ask what if?


My point is that there is no "what if," they knew the guns were there.

Some assumptions are more reasonable and valid than others. I am confident and comfortable with the assumption I've made.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:33 pm

kurt_w wrote:bcs, I think you're misunderstanding the point that jason et al. are making. It's not to criticize the people who were robbed. It's to criticize the argument that certain pro-gun folks have been making around here (that the only way to be safe is to have lots of guns).

If this story had been one about a family with no guns whose home was invaded and robbed, you can be damn sure that certain posters would be holding it up as proof that "gun-free zones" and "a disarmed population" are setting people up to be victimized.



Kurt, I understand what you are saying, and agree that that was the overarching intent of the thread, it’s just the very palpable undertones of an almost sense of glee that a gun owner got a taste of his own medicine I object to – since we do not know all the facts at this time. It may turn out that the guy was some bat shit crazy drug dealer living out his own “The World Is Yours” fantasy, in which case, I personally would think this is a case of poetic justice. To sum up – I’m not defending the guy, I just think we should wait for the facts to come out before we publicly tear him down.

As for what “certain posters “ would do under different circumstances, I’m sure you are correct – they won the race to the bottom a long time ago, I just don’t want to join them there.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:44 pm

wack wack wrote:
bcs89 wrote:
wack wack wrote:
Loose lips sink ships.

What if they knew he had the guns? A fairly unusual coed robbery crew of tender years and little experience just randomly stumbled into a goldmine with 30 guns in it? And you ask what if?


Again, making assumptions then assessing culpability based on them.
Sorry, not sure what you mean by "And you ask what if?


My point is that there is no "what if," they knew the guns were there.

Some assumptions are more reasonable and valid than others. I am confident and comfortable with the assumption I've made.



As is your right.

For myself, I'll reserve my judgment and sense of superiority, till I know more than just "a family that owned guns was held hostage and robbed at gun point".
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby pjbogart » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:08 pm

bcs89 wrote:For myself, I'll reserve my judgment and sense of superiority, till I know more than just "a family that owned guns was held hostage and robbed at gun point".


You seem pretty intent on finding someone who's willing to openly blame the victims, and I'm here to oblige. I don't feel in the least bit sorry for these "victims". In fact, I would go so far as to say that we're the victims, as these dolts who decided that stockpiling weapons and ammunition seemed like a good idea have now released those weapons into the community. It was just fine and dandy when they were only endangering themselves with their cache, but now they're endangering the rest of us, and frankly, if one of those guns is used to commit a crime, I think these poor "victims" should be held liable.

And I don't feel any need to wait for all the facts to come out in order to pass judgement on these morons. They had 30 firearms in their house. 30. And now those guns are in the hands of criminals. And I'm supposed to feel bad for the owners of the guns?
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:12 pm

bcs89 wrote:For myself, I'll reserve my judgment and sense of superiority, till I know more than just "a family that owned guns was held hostage and robbed at gun point".

Oh yeah. You're not exuding any judgmental or holier than thou vibes at all.
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Re: Crew of 4 invades house brimming with guns, steals them

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:51 pm

pjbogart wrote:
bcs89 wrote:For myself, I'll reserve my judgment and sense of superiority, till I know more than just "a family that owned guns was held hostage and robbed at gun point".


You seem pretty intent on finding someone who's willing to openly blame the victims, and I'm here to oblige. I don't feel in the least bit sorry for these "victims". In fact, I would go so far as to say that we're the victims, as these dolts who decided that stockpiling weapons and ammunition seemed like a good idea have now released those weapons into the community. It was just fine and dandy when they were only endangering themselves with their cache, but now they're endangering the rest of us, and frankly, if one of those guns is used to commit a crime, I think these poor "victims" should be held liable.

And I don't feel any need to wait for all the facts to come out in order to pass judgement on these morons. They had 30 firearms in their house. 30. And now those guns are in the hands of criminals. And I'm supposed to feel bad for the owners of the guns?



No PJ, I’m not intent on anything – I’m just replying to what is being said. So far as “obliging” me, thanks, but there is no need. As to your ability to proudly act as judge, jury and executioner based on only the very scantest of facts, well, good for you I guess. As I said before, there are reasons (non nut-job reasons) to have a fair number of guns in one place, that may or may not be the case here, time will tell. Personally I’m willing to give them a day or two for facts to come out before passing judgment, obviously you are not
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