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Politics and the CT shooting

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Politics and the CT shooting

Postby jjoyce » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:06 am

On Politico this morning, the secondary headline read Rush: Liberals, MSM will blame GOP."

Not from where I'm sitting. My Facebook feed is full of people Rush would classify as liberals (in that they vote Democratic and probably don't write checks to the NRA) trying to sort out their feelings and asking that the country have a discussion about guns. The more heated comments are saying access to guns needs to be limited; it's too easy for mentally unstable individuals to arm themselves to the teeth. One person compares the NRA to the Taliban. But is that blaming Republicans (the NRA writes checks ot an awful lot of Democrats)? I don't think so. The overwhelming sentiment is that we have to work on this problem and end the massacres. The most linked story I'm seeing this morning is a piece from The Atlantic back in July called "A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths."

Meanwhile, the take from conservatives is something along the lines of how this wouldn't have happened if the teacher had been armed with a gun.

This post isn't about that point or the gun debate. There's a thread about that already. It's about the political discourse around tragedy and this idea that the leading conservative voice in the country went on the air and immediately claimed victim status. Limbaugh looked at the tragedy unfolding (and his show was on the air when a lot of the details were still in question) and decided to set a very particular tone and that tone was partisan. According to that Politico story, here were his exact words:

[The shooting] is just awful. It is terrible, incomprehensible but I’m going to tell you something – as we sit here at this very moment, you know it and I know it – there are liberals trying to find a way to blame this on conservatives or Republicans.


It's terrible, but we're going to get the blame here, so prepare yourselves. What's that called, bunker mentality?
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Meade » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:38 am

What's that called, bunker mentality?

asks Jason, insincerely, after he takes one more partisan shot at Limbaugh while Limbaugh broadcasts from his bunker.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:47 am

Rush is a bloated sack of shit who only opens his mouth to create controversy and draw attention to himself. The sooner people accept that fact and start ignoring him and others with the same MO, the better the political discourse in this country will be.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Meade » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:59 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:...a bloated sack of shit who only opens his mouth...

This is what better political discourse looks like?
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby pjbogart » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:02 am

I think political parties are so entrenched in their positions that criticism of a position, even completely independent of politics, is perceived as "politically motivated". The mere suggestion that we have sensible gun laws is seen as an attack not simply on the Second Amendment, but on the Republican Party. The same is true of many hot-button issues on both the right and the left.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Stebben84 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:22 pm

And then you have this:

In 1962 we kicked prayer out of the schools. In 1963 we kicked God's word out of ours schools. In 1980 we kicked the Ten Commandments out of our schools. We've kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, 'Hey, I'll be glad to protect your children, but you've got to invite me back into your world first. I'm not going to go where I'm not wanted. I am a gentlemen.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 03903.html

No prayer? Well then you die. How delightfully Christian.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby DCB » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:25 pm

I think the general public understands, correctly, that both parties are beholden to the NRA. Neither party dared to raise the issue during the past election. Even after a federal legislator got shot in the head.

Did gun control come up during the senate race? even with Tammy "most liberal Democrat in the history of the universe " Baldwin running?

Republicans might be the most vocal defenders of the NRA position, but the Democrats only rarely challenge them.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby gargantua » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:52 pm

Playing the victim card is a pretty standard conservative talk radio tactic. I wish I could say I was surprised that Limbaugh would use a tragedy of this magnitude in that manner. It's just kind of sad, really.

All I could think about was how awful it had to be for the parents to be waiting to find out if they would ever see their child alive again. Blaming Republicans never even occurred to me.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby ouroborus4 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:05 pm

While I agree its not the general sentiment to blame conservatives for this, there is this gem:

pjbogart wrote:I blame gun advocates for the deaths of these 27 people. America will never have a shortage of mentally unstable people, and in fact many ordinary people go through stages in their life where stress or frustration push them to the edge. People who demand that guns be freely available provide the vehicle that mass murderers need to commit their crimes. Gun advocates are directly to blame for crimes such as this. Without their advocacy, such crimes could not be committed.

I think most gun advocates fall between knowingly and recklessly. They are quite aware of the dangers which firearms pose, yet their obsession with firearms causes them to act with wilfull disregard for life. Essentially, not only does their desire to own firearms trump the safety of others, they advocate for gun rights with full knowledge that such rights will lead to a great many lost lives. They simply do not care, or don't care enough to surrender even the most reasonable restrictions on their gun ownership.

This issue should have no political component. It addresses the safety of the citizenry, which all people should strive to protect regardless of political affiliation. We need sensible gun laws and we need them now.


And no, it doesn't say 'republicans', but I think it is pretty obvious that the stereotype of 'gun advocate' is a republican.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby The One » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:13 pm

The NRA is not responsible for what happened. If you want to say they are, then the Tavern League of Wisconsin is responsible for the hundreds of drunk driving deaths that occur each year. I understand that this is a prime opportunity to attack and dent one of the big money supporters of the Republican party, but let's not trip over the dead bodies of the kids in a rush to destroy the NRA.

I am not an NRA supporter. In fact, I find them to be stupid on some of the laws they come out against. But I think that of many groups both right and left.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby rabble » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:24 pm

ouroborus4 wrote:And no, it doesn't say 'republicans', but I think it is pretty obvious that the stereotype of 'gun advocate' is a republican.

Frankly I think you're acting on your own assumptions there. It's not obvious to me, although in my personal social circles there are more Republican gun advocates than Democrat.

Having said that, hypothesizing for a second that Republicans are indeed stereotyped that way, ya think maybe those anti-Obama guys who went to rallies wearing their assault rifles and "don't tread on me" and "feed the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants" tshirts might have had something to do with that?
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby DCB » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:28 pm

The One wrote:The NRA is not responsible for what happened. If you want to say they are, then the Tavern League of Wisconsin is responsible for the hundreds of drunk driving deaths that occur each year.

Does the Tavern League aggressively oppose all drunk driving laws? because if not your analogy is stupid.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:46 pm

Nate Silver of the NYT on how the media is steering conversations on guns.

If the news coverage is any guide, there has been a change of tone in recent years in the public conversation about guns. The two-word phrase “gun control” is being used considerably less often than it was 10 or 20 years ago. But the phrase “gun rights” is being used more often. And the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution is being invoked more frequently in the discussion.

...(opponents of stricter gun laws) would prefer that the debate be about what they see as Constitutional rights, rather than the utilitarian consequences of gun control measures.

Their strategy may have been working. The polling evidence suggests that the public has gone from tending to back stricter gun control policies to a more ambiguous position in recent years. There may be some voters who think that the Constitution provides broad latitude to own and carry guns – even if the consequences can sometimes be tragic.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Sandi » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:59 pm

That you will turn such a tragedy into politics and political hay is really disturbing.

This was terrible.
There is no relation politically to any party.
Period.
Fucking morons.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:23 pm

President Obama: "We're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics."
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