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Taxes and fiscal cliff

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Huckleby » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:39 pm

Donald wrote:We have a revenue problem and a war problem, not a domestic discretionary spending problem. .... On the spending side, health care reform should save 1.0% GDP. Ending the wars yields 1% GDP, and reforming military procurement will get us 1.5% GDP in savings.


Health care reform is not going to save 1% GDP, at least in forseeable future. I expect the costs of medicaid and subsidies are going to run way over projections, the economy is much weaker than expected 3 years ago when Obamacare costs were projected. Bending cost curve is going to come over decades, and involve changes to delivery system, not just insurance.

the military is not going to be slashed by 1% GDP. I wish.

Painful spending cuts are coming, in everything from student loans to medicare. I wish your dream was true. You are setting yourself up to be deeply angry when Obama makes his compromises. Take a look at Simpson-Bowles - something like that is coming.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Huckleby » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:49 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/us/po ... tions.html

Democrats are interested in the idea of capping deductions. Some people in this thread say there is not enough money there to bother. (My brother retracted his statement that "super rich are already capped" - that provision phased-out.)

I don't say the people in this thread are wrong. But very smart, informed people have opposite understanding of the facts. I say the situation is too confusing to get a solid handle on, I hope the deduction cap is viable compromise.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:23 am

Huckleby wrote: I say the situation is too confusing to get a solid handle on

I agree. Do you suppose that might be a benefit for any particular group?

Pause.

Nah.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:54 am

rabble wrote:
Huckleby wrote: I say the situation is too confusing to get a solid handle on

I agree. Do you suppose that might be a benefit for any particular group?

Those who will benefit will be the oligarchs, who just ran a beautiful game of good cop/bad cop, and those whose job it is to provide political camouflage to right leaning Dems like Obama.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:08 am

Huckleby wrote:Painful spending cuts are coming, in everything from student loans to medicare. I wish your dream was true. You are setting yourself up to be deeply angry when Obama makes his compromises. Take a look at Simpson-Bowles - something like that is coming.

Taking a switchblade to the "entitlements" and other social programs has been on the Republican agenda forever, but political suicide would have been the result. But now, the environment has been set with a popular and willing President from the party of the New Deal. Amazing for us old farts to witness.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby DCB » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:58 am

This 'fiscal cliff' nonsense is just a scam by the usual suspects. Oh sure, we re-elected the president on a campaign to raise taxes on the rich, but you didn't think they'd let him get away with it, did you?
Such a change would result in a $134 billion windfall for the 63 publicly traded companies in the Fix the Debt coalition, IPS calculates.


Nobody cares about the deficit
David Atkins wrote:Politics in this country is built on so many intentional lies it's hard to disentangle them all.

Dean Baker wrote: So why are the serious people at the Post and in Washington obsessed with deficit reduction? The interest burden of the government debt is near a post-war low. It seems really silly for the government to be focused on deficit reduction at all right now, as Mr. Feroli’s comments would seem to imply.
...
So the question boils down to whether the rest of us want to lose $700 billion in taxes or from programs that benefit the middle class, like Social Security and Medicare, or do we want to take the Post’s imaginary risks associated with letting the tax cuts expire. The choice is yours, America!

http://my.firedoglake.com/deanbaker/201 ... -tax-cuts/
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Sandi » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:40 am

DCB wrote:This 'fiscal cliff' nonsense is just a scam by the usual suspects.


I agree entirely. The "fiscal cliff" is when the Bush tax cuts expire and automatic spending cuts kick in.

The result: Less spending and more revenue.

Fiscal cliff? Let er rip! A good start if nothing else.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:59 am

Where was the talk about a fiscal cliff when G.W. Bush cut taxes for the super rich at the same time he was spending hundreds of billions on his unnecessary invasion of Iraq?
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby HawkHead » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:50 am

Sandi wrote:
DCB wrote:This 'fiscal cliff' nonsense is just a scam by the usual suspects.


I agree entirely. The "fiscal cliff" is when the Bush tax cuts expire and automatic spending cuts kick in.

The result: Less spending and more revenue.

Fiscal cliff? Let er rip! A good start if nothing else.


A good start is sending our economy down the shitter?

Your comment shows your lack of understanding on the economy. Our economy is struggling to sustain tiny growth. Cutting government spending at this point would be disastrous. It would take so much money out of the economy it would collapse. Same with a large tax increase to lower and middle income families. Those families actual buy stuff and live paycheck to paycheck. If they have less they spend less on the non-essentials which cripples the economy.

The USA has come to a point where we have walked so far out on the ledge that there really is no hope but to continue forward and hope the ledge keeps going and eventually leads to a nice safe place.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Detritus » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:01 am

HawkHead wrote:The USA has come to a point where we have walked so far out on the ledge that there really is no hope but to continue forward and hope the ledge keeps going and eventually leads to a nice safe place.

I recommend close study of this instructional video, then.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby wack wack » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:08 am

Huckleby wrote:I spoke to my brother last night... His thought is that the only way to make a dent in the deficit through tax reform is to raise capital gains rates and change the way dividend income is treated.


I like your brother. This is a huge philosophical problem. The earned income vs. capital gains picture needs to be turned completely upside-down.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:55 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Where was the talk about a fiscal cliff when G.W. Bush cut taxes for the super rich at the same time he was spending hundreds of billions on his unnecessary invasion of Iraq?
Who'da thunk it?
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:00 am

DCB wrote:Oh sure, we re-elected the president on a campaign to raise taxes on the rich, but you didn't think they'd let him get away with it, did you?
I think "we" elected a president who campaigned primarily on the fact that Mitt Romney sucks, and that he was not Mitt Romney.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby wack wack » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:11 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
DCB wrote:Oh sure, we re-elected the president on a campaign to raise taxes on the rich, but you didn't think they'd let him get away with it, did you?
I think "we" elected a president who campaigned primarily on the fact that Mitt Romney sucks, and that he was not Mitt Romney.


Yeah, keep chillin' in the bubble, Art.
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Re: Taxes and fiscal cliff

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:43 am

Hoax, fake disaster politics, whatever. The spawn of Wall St. is going to take the show on the road to make the case for a grand austerity bargain. The poor and working class are about to be shoved off the fiscal cliff.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/obama-activist-base-fiscal-cliff_n_2127100.html
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