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Sandy as election spoiler excuse

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:19 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Huckleby wrote:As far as ideological brutality, I would rank them: Nazis, FOX, Soviet Communism
This is a completely inappropriate comparison.

yes, yes it is. The conversation about ideology was giving me a headache, so I acted out inappropriately.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby pjbogart » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Huckleby wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:
Huckleby wrote:As far as ideological brutality, I would rank them: Nazis, FOX, Soviet Communism
This is a completely inappropriate comparison.

yes, yes it is. The conversation about ideology was giving me a headache, so I acted out inappropriately.


Call me a radical, invoke Godwin's Law, chastise me for hyperbole... I think that the difference between Nazis and Republicans is simply power. If the extreme right-wing that currently dominates Republican politics ever gained complete control of our political system, I think we'd be shocked by what they were willing to do with that power. The currency of Republican politics is not conversation over disagreements, it's a seething hatred for liberalism, a term that few of them even seem to grasp in even the most rudimentary understanding. They're driven by emotion, fear and a systematic scapegoating of minorities and political adversaries.

Republicans, and I distinguish them from Libertarians, are not simply wrong, they're dangerous.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Donald » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:42 am

pjbogart wrote:Call me a radical, invoke Godwin's Law, chastise me for hyperbole... I think that the difference between Nazis and Republicans is simply power. If the extreme right-wing that currently dominates Republican politics ever gained complete control of our political system, I think we'd be shocked by what they were willing to do with that power. The currency of Republican politics is not conversation over disagreements, it's a seething hatred for liberalism, a term that few of them even seem to grasp in even the most rudimentary understanding. They're driven by emotion, fear and a systematic scapegoating of minorities and political adversaries.

Republicans, and I distinguish them from Libertarians, are not simply wrong, they're dangerous.

The fascist wing of the Republican Party is dangerous, but what you see with them is a constant need to have enemies. In Republican one-party states the fascist wing starts attacking more rational Republicans as "Republicans In Name Only." They knock off rational Republicans in primaries and end up either losing general elections or electing complete fools who have no credibility or leadership capacity because they are so far out there no one pays attention to them.

Still, they end up passing stupid legislation that takes years to undo through the courts or the political system. We've seen that in Wisconsin.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:09 am

Forget about NAZIs and violence and danger and jihad. Human beings of any ideology are prone to extremism if you put enough stress on them. In fact, I think ideology is completely irrelevant to extreme behavior, any ideology or religion will work if you want to kill the other guy badly enough.

On a more petty and personal level - whether people will let you live and let live - I find the libertarians to be a uniquely likeable group. I don't agree with their politics much because free markets fail in too many ways. But they lack the authoritarian streak that the left and right manifest in their own ways.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:15 am

Donald wrote: The fascist wing of the Republican Party is dangerous, but what you see with them is a constant need to have enemies. In Republican one-party states the fascist wing starts attacking more rational Republicans as "Republicans In Name Only."


In our current era, the fascist wing (a.k.a. the Tea party) of the Republicans are dramatically offensive. Listening to Vicki McKenna's radio show is a stomach churner.

But people on the left will throw you in jail or fine you too - just for different crimes against their liberal sensibilities.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:27 am

Do any of you know any Republicans personally? Have you ever visited the office of a Republican representative? I think there are fools and ideologues in both major parties, but it's hardly a categorical trait to be applied with such a broad brush. I think that it's likely you would find some rational Republicans in Congress and lower offices if you looked, but you haven't looked very hard (or at all).
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Donald » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:54 am

Do I know Republicans? Yeah. I used to work with them on lots of issues. In many western states some Republicans have led or supported efforts to strengthen lax mining laws. That's different than here, where they are sort in lock step with any effort to put mines in.

The Republicans I particularly like aren't elected to office, however, because they think for themselves. That's not welcome in the modern Republican Party. As these more rational Republicans have told me themselves, the 70 percent of the Republican Party, and most of its base, consists of a fetid stew self-interested business types who want favors from government, religious fanatics, gun crazies and economic libertarians.

The Republican officeholders I've known, with a few exceptions, are pretty pathetic people, because they have to appeal to that base. The ones who can buck that base come from wealthier districts, so they tend to follow the corporate line, though not the social conservative line.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:01 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Do any of you know any Republicans personally? Have you ever visited the office of a Republican representative? I think there are fools and ideologues in both major parties, but it's hardly a categorical trait to be applied with such a broad brush.


The other shocking truth is that kindness runs about equally in both parties, if you just judge by how people conduct themselves in their daily lives.

But I say you can't separate support for government policy from personal behavior. Conservatives disagree, or just as likely, they say liberal policies end up hurting people.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Pundits are now saying that Sandy could mean a popular vote loss for Obama even if he wins the electoral vote, as the states affected by the hurricane will have a lower turnout.

And to address the question of profiteering in the wake of the storm: New York investigates price gouging post-Sandy
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