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Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby KidCapitol » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:39 am

Screw it.
We don't get what we thought we would.
I'll-Bomb-Ya promised Hope and Change and instead we got Nope and Deranged.
And just like Dumbya, he kills women and children with those drones and continues the wars.
(Didn't he win the Nobel Peace Prize?)
Mitt Dummy and Paul Lyin ain't any better.
Would have been a waste of time to vote against Wanker in the recent recall.
As for 3rd party, they will never win unless the system changes to give them even half a chance.
I've decided that to vote is just a waste of time and my one vote no longer matters.
Anyone else feel this way?
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:02 am

The biggest problem 3rd party candidates have is the sheer amount of people who think like you do. Ross Perot proved a 3rd party candidate can actually make a decent showing.
Of course thanks to Nader people are more afraid to vote for the candidate they really want rather than the guy with the best chance of beating the guy they really don't want. Since most voters are told who the bad guy is by their major party of choice, they seem to miss that there really isn't a lot different between who they are told is the bad guy, and who is the "hero"
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Donald » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:28 am

The reality is no candidate is going to satisfy all of my prerequisites--not for President, not for Senator, not for school board. Usually most people who are elected with my vote disappoint me. The change we usually get is not as complete or as swift as I would like it. I always think of the change we get that we don't like if the wrong people are elected. Consider how our freedoms for a generation or two are at risk by a rightist Supreme Court.

I don't view voting as the end of my political activism. First, our system of government is geared to resist large, fast changes. Add to that the large sway of special interest money and lobbying to resist change or to temper it. I expect my candidate is going to be faced with much more complexity than is evident in campaign speeches, and won't be able to deliver on as much change as I want, as fast as I want. I stay involved on issues that I care about. I constantly write political leaders with my opinions, and I support non-profit outfits that are working for change.

I voted for third party candidates (and regretted it), but have never not voted. I view voting as a requirement of citizenship, so I vote in every election. Too many lives have been lost securing the right to vote for too many people for me to just not vote.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby kurt_w » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:42 am

It's true that neither party is running on a platform of ending all US military intervention everywhere.

But there really is a huge difference between the parties nonetheless. Bush started the war in Iraq; Obama ended it, and brought all US troops home from Iraq, over the angry protests of the GOP, who wanted to keep a US military contingent there indefinitely.

I can't speak for you, but the difference between the party that started the Iraq war, and the party that ended it, is plenty large enough for me.

Likewise, it's true that the Obama administration hasn't prosecuted Bush administration officials who violated international law by authorizing the use of torture against detainees. But ... Obama did ban the use of torture (one of his first acts in office). Romney's advisors, meanwhile, are discussing plans to repeal the ban on torture if their candidate wins. Romney has specifically stated that he doesn't consider "waterboarding" to be torture; Obama specifically states that it is.

These kinds of differences are found on almost every issue. The Obama administration hasn't been perfect, from a progressive point of view. But it's been a vast improvement over the Bush administration, and on pretty much every point where they differ, Romney's plan is to return to Bush-era policy.

To me, that's more than enough to justify voting for Obama/Biden. In particular, the fact that Obama promised to end the Iraq war, and did so, against the angry criticism of the GOP, is reason enough for me to vote for him.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby kurt_w » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:47 am

Donald's comments (posted while I was writing my own reply) are very insightful.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Huckleby » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:02 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Since most voters are told who the bad guy is by their major party of choice, they seem to miss that there really isn't a lot different between who they are told is the bad guy, and who is the "hero"


I can't believe that a sage political observor like yourself could make such a silly remark. It leads me to suspect that you are sending a tactical message, "go ahead and vote for the Green Party, wavering Obama supporters." Of course I am probably wrong.

I would bet my bank account that you yourself have never in your life voted for a third party candidate.

Anybody who follows Washington at all knows that now more than ever we are electing a party, not a person. The parties are voting almost entirely as a bloc in congress, especially the Republicans. The Republican and Demoratic parties present a stark choice. See the Paul Ryan budget.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Huckleby » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:09 am

KidCapitol wrote:Screw it.
We don't get what we thought we would.
I'll-Bomb-Ya promised Hope and Change and instead we got Nope and Deranged.


Well, this election is largely a referendum on Obamacare. Democrats have been trying for 100 years to get some sort of health care guaranteed for poor and working class people. This is that chance, and opportunity may not come again for a generation or more. If all else is equal, the issue of health care is worth weighing-in on.

If you think that Mitt Romney will be less militaristic than OBama, you aren't paying attention.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:17 am

Huckleby wrote: Democrats have been trying for 100 years to get some sort of health care guaranteed for poor and working class people.

So did Progressive Republicans (such as T.R.) at one point in time.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Donald » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:51 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Huckleby wrote: Democrats have been trying for 100 years to get some sort of health care guaranteed for poor and working class people.

So did Progressive Republicans (such as T.R.) at one point in time.

This is huge change, and the reason Obama should be re-elected, even if Obamacare could have been better.

A lot of Obamacare is warmed over Republican policy that Republicans abandoned as they moved further to the wacky right. It's not the change I wanted, which was single-payer, or the change I would have accepted more, public option, but it provides coverage to people who really need it. It's life or death for many people, and I'm not willing to let my belief that it wasn't the exact program I thought was best cloud the understanding that Romney would take health care away from people who need it.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Stella_Guru » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:58 am

Huckleby wrote:Anybody who follows Washington at all knows that now more than ever we are electing a party, not a person. The parties are voting almost entirely as a bloc in congress, especially the Republicans. The Republican and Demoratic parties present a stark choice. See the Paul Ryan budget.

In spite of their noisy posturing and their carefully staged fights, both parties are equally committed courtsans to wealth and power. There is some variance here and there, but fundamentally they are here to serve capital. The ties that bind them are much stronger than their differences. And as voters, we seem to know no other way than a servile devotion to our own oppressors.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby gargantua » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:25 am

I sympathize with the emotion of the OP. I have felt that way myself on occasion, but have still continued to vote. I have skin in the game, since the people I vote for or against set tax policy, appoint Supreme Court justices, and make decisions to send people to war.

Just think about whose interest is served by your not voting. Certainly not yours. I understand your disgust with the process, but please reconsider.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:38 am

I have never missed voting in an election since I became of age (21 at that time). I wonder how many times KidCapitol has voted in a presidential election in the past.
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:51 am

KidCapitol wrote:I've decided that to vote is just a waste of time and my one vote no longer matters.
Anyone else feel this way?


I understand your sentiment and pretty much agree though if I could vote for Obama, I would. (Worse is better) I would encourage you and everyone else here to do the same.

It is a pretty frustrating exercise and in several elections in the 90's I went and cast a blank ballot. In more recent years I have adopted a policy of always voting against the incumbent in every position from municipal assembly to governor, regardless of party.

Other than an exception for Obama, I recommend the same. The problem is not repos or demmies. There is not a nickle's worth of difference between them, as you point out.

The problem is incumbency. That is in our hands.

I would strongly urge you to vote. If you do not, you will be portrayed as apathetic and accepting of whoever gets in. I know you are not but that is how you will be portrayed. By not voting you are playing straight into repo/demmie hands.

Cast a blank ballot. Write in a silly name. Vote for Gary Johnson (who I believe is on your ballot) or Roseanne Barr. Write "None of the Above" across your ballot.

Do something to show you are pissed off about this whole charade.

Please do vote for Obama. He needs you and we need him. WI looks like it will be close and every vote counts.

John Henry
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:53 am

Donald wrote:I view voting as a requirement of citizenship, so I vote in every election. Too many lives have been lost securing the right to vote for too many people for me to just not vote.


Amen, Donald, and ditto.

John Henry
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Let me make a modest proposal:

In the US pretty much every state citizen over 18 gets to vote for presidential electors. Each state citizen gets to cast 1 vote.

Perhaps we should allow multiple voting? Nevil Shute in his 1950s novel "In the Wet" looked into the future and saw 7 votes in Australia. Every adult got 1 vote but you earned extra votes for graduating school, serving in the military, paying taxes and some other things. You could earn 5 additional votes and the Queen could award a 7th vote for extraordinary merit.

In Heinlein's novel "Starship Troopers" only military and veterans could vote.

Perhaps we need some sort of multiple voting in the US. Everybody gets 1 vote as they do now. Perhaps another vote for military service. Perhaps another vote for every $10,000 (or fraction) in taxes paid. (Pay $100m and get 10 extra votes)

Those are examples, I am open to other schemes to award multiple votes on merit.

The basis is that the people who are pulling the wagon should have more say in the direction it is going than the people riding on it.

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

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