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Impressions of the VP debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:59 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote: He said that Catholic charities, organization and hospitals will not be required to provide contraception under Obamatax.

So why are they suing?



The Catholic Church is against anybody getting contraceptives, and they think they have an opportunity to further that cause. The church believes they are entitled to a religous exemption from insurance reglation when they are acting as an insurance company. It's unclear how that will work out, but the the administrations position is that the people who don't want to abide by insurance regulation should stay out of the insurance business.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby david cohen » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:14 pm

Yes John, I have been in a mfging plant...quite a few actually, having grown up in NC, Va, and Ga. I watched them get bought out, drowned out, farmed out and eventually shipped out. From the carpet mills to the textile mills to the furniture mills. They served a different kind of American, John Henry, than does Walmart. Heck, you can get a factory job in Wisconsin with only a high school degree...ever been to Wisconsin???
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby david cohen » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:16 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:On a side note, JfH can't even vote for president/v.p. because of his place of residence.


Good point Henry, though I sense our resident Fajardoan has lived stateside as well.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:22 pm

david cohen wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:On a side note, JfH can't even vote for president/v.p. because of his place of residence.


Good point Henry, though I sense our resident Fajardoan has lived stateside as well.


He's lived everywhere. He is omnipresent.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:41 pm

Huckleby wrote:
The church believes they are entitled to a religous exemption from insurance reglation when they are acting as an insurance company.


I understand that. I can even see an argument that they should not be given an exemption, though I feel that the terms of any insurance policy should be strictly up to seller and buyer.

That is not what Biden said last night.

He said that Obamatax did not force Catholic organizations to offer these services.

That was a lie.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:06 pm

rabble wrote:How about you, John? How do you know so much about what those careers are like?


Been a while but I did work in a McDonalds (and other restaurants) in the 60's.

As for manufacturing, I have been working in manufacturing continuously since 1976. 8 years starting as Maintenance Supervisor for a multi-plant pharmaceutical manufacturing campus culminating as Manager, Facility Operations. From 1985-2007 designing, selling, installing and servicing manufacturing, assembly and packaging machinery to a variety of industries. From 1996 to present as "The Changeover Wizard". I've worked in a variety of plants and industries teaching employees to be more productive by being lazy.

Those are just some of the highlights.

I've worked in at least 500 perhaps as many as 1000 different manufacturing plants in that time covering most industrial sectors.

As for McDonalds jobs being better than most mfg jobs, I'll stand by that. Most (unskilled) manufacturing jobs don't pay a lot more than minimum wage. Certainly nothing like those paid in a few industries like automotive.

Many, perhaps most, manufacturing jobs are unstable with regular periods of layoffs. Thus, even if the worker makes a bit more per hour in Mfg. they still might do better in McD or WM (or the like) on an annual or multi-year basis.

Most unskilled mfg jobs involve doing incredibly mind numbing work all day long. For example, stuffing a component into a circuit breaker 30 times a minute. Sewing a pocket onto a shirt 10 times a minute. Soldering 3 resistors onto a board twice a minute.

My mother in law worked for GE for 30 years stuffing parts into a circuit breaker. She could literally sleep while doing it due to pure muscle memory.

Want to read how it is working in the fabled auto industry? Read Ben Hamper's book "Rivethead" (Featured in Michael Moore's "Roger and Me"
movie)

Or read Henry Ford's books "My Life and Work" (available free for Kindle at Amazon or Gutenberg. Or you could buy this edition http://amzn.to/RmbnMk ) "Today and Tomorrow" or "Moving Forward" (Out of print but I can send you a Doc file of it)

Now tell me again how good all these manufacturing jobs are.

Yes, there are a lot of good manufacturing jobs out there. The good ones require skills, though. Some of those could be learned on the job but in my experience many people just aren't willing to make the effort.

Henry Ford said almost 100 years ago "Never use a man to do what a machine can do" Machines are becoming more and more capable every year as well as cheaper.

So how would you "bring back" all these manufacturing jobs?

I don't think it can be done but would be happy to hear your ideas.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:09 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Because he has worked every job out there. He's like a fucking wizard.


C'mon Stebben, get it right.

Not "like a fucking wizard"

I am "The Changeover Wizard"

(Note the definite article and caps)

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:12 pm

I thought you said you were a Navy lifer. But you have said a lot of different things.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:15 pm

david cohen wrote:Good point Henry, though I sense our resident Fajardoan has lived stateside as well.


I can, and have, run for President but you are right, I can't vote for president (or Senator or Rep)

On the other hand, I have the luxury of being able to say, no matter who wins, "It is not my fault"

I am still very interested in Obama winning since I am subject to pretty much every federal law and regulation that any person/business in WI, NY, CA or any other state is.

I did grow up in NY and Virginia but have lived in Puerto Rico since 1971.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby minicat » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:16 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:
minicat wrote:That being said, I'll give the edge to the guy who's not a congenital liar.


You are going with Ryan?



Biden lied a hell of a lot less than Ryan, who I don't think has the ability to actually tell the truth. I wouldn't vote for Paul Ryan if he was the last politician on earth.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:20 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:I thought you said you were a Navy lifer.


I doubt I ever said that. I did spend 7-1/2 years on active duty. I did at one point plan on staying the full 19 to retirement. I was, since I had re-enlisted once, "career designated" in my service record.

Never said I was a lifer and I have no idea where you got that idea.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:21 pm

minicat wrote:Biden lied a hell of a lot less than Ryan


Now there is a ringing endorsement.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:22 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:I can, and have, run for President...

Really? On which states' ballots?
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby DCB » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:29 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:That is not what Biden said last night.

He said that Obamatax did not force Catholic organizations to offer these services.

That was a lie.

John Henry

Here is what he said:
Biden wrote:With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:32 pm

david cohen wrote:Heck, you can get a factory job in Wisconsin with only a high school degree...ever been to Wisconsin???


Numerous times, in various manufacturing plants.

Including Madison.

Was just in WI earlier this year. (Was just near WI earlier this week. Chicagoland)

As for factory jobs requiring only an HS degree, those are the jobs I thought we have been mainly talking about. Unskilled jobs. There are still plenty of them outside of WI as well.

"Unskilled" here meaning no particular skills other than perhaps being about to read, write and do simple math. Unskilled meaning being able to be reasonably productive at your job with less than a week, often just a few hours or a day, of experience and training.

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