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Impressions of the VP debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:57 am

minicat wrote:That being said, I'll give the edge to the guy who's not a congenital liar.


You are going with Ryan?

Biden said he voted against going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq.

He actually voted for both.

He said that Catholic charities, organization and hospitals will not be required to provide contraception under Obamatax.

So why are they suing?

And so on.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:00 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Biden said he voted against going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq.


I thought he was gonna drop out. Huh?
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:01 am

Twisted yes, but I liked it because the teeth gnashing was priceless. Perhaps the wake-up call desperately needed. But, in 1980 a comrade said he hoped Reagan would win to provide a wake-up call. He did, and it didn't.
Last edited by Stella_Guru on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:01 am

Donald wrote:it was clear Mondale won both debates on substance that year.


We're talking about Walter "one state" Mondale here?

Who carried a single state? Still a record.

Fat lot of good his substance did him.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:07 am

Stebben84 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Biden said he voted against going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq.


I thought he was gonna drop out. Huh?


And what does that have to do with Biden lying?

And it is not something that could be spun, like the question of the 700+mm for medicaid that may or may not be withdrawn.

It is a clear, verifiable, fact.

It is not only a lie, it is an incredibly stupid thing to lie about, simply because it is so easily verified.

So Biden is not only a liar (which we have known for decades now) He is a stupid liar. (We have known about his stupidity for some decades as well.)

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:18 am

And it is not something that could be spun, like the question of the 700+mm for medicaid that may or may not be withdrawn.


Speaking of stupid... It's Billion not Million. It's Medicare not Medicaid. And it's cut from over payments, fraud and abuse not benefits. Ryan's plan cuts 700 Billion in benefits. Doesn't seem to ever make it into their spin machine though.

I think Biden put it best last night. Who do you trust to preserve Medicare? The people who have been trying to destroy it since it's inception? The people who voted twice for Ryan's plan to turn it into a voucher program? I thought Republicans WANTED to make government programs more efficient? The disingenuous argument the Romney/Ryan campaign is making is evident to anyone with their head out of their ass.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:26 am

On cnn.com's homepage is a readers poll on the VP debate. Currently Biden leads Ryan 61% to 39% with over thirty thousand votes cast.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby david cohen » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:46 am

I thought the debate was pretty even. Ryan did better than I thought he would. Biden was as advertised. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it's all political theatre and no matter who wins, we're irreparably fucked. We're fucked because Medicare/Medicaid funding is going away as slowly but surely under a Romney/Ryan administration as it is under Obama. We're fucked because neither party will pull back on defense spending. We're fucked because neither party gives a damn about manufacturing jobs that supported the middle class. We're fucked because neither party can support public education without giving their cronies ways to profit from the education business. But we're really fucked because America has grown too big, too fast, at a time when our resources have shrunk too much and too quickly. Add in the fact that in a capitalistic system, there must be, by definition, losers for every winner, and we're fucked. All those fundamentalist religious zealots are just icing on the cake. Brace yourselves for another round of "we're fucked" in the headlines.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Meade » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:24 pm

david cohen wrote:we're irreparably fucked... We're fucked... We're fucked... We're fucked... We're fucked... we're really fucked... and we're fucked... "we're fucked" ...

Loser mentality.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:32 pm

david cohen wrote:We're fucked because neither party gives a damn about manufacturing jobs


And what would you do about manufacturing jobs if we made you king?

We are doing more manufacturing than ever in the US (through 2010, at least. Not sure about 2011). Adjusted for inflation and adjusted per capita.

Increasing manufacturing may increase manufacturing jobs slightly but most manufacturing jobs can be automated and are being automated at an increasing pace.

No matter what we do about manufacturing, manufacturing jobs will never come back. And that is probably a good thing.

Most McDonalds and Walmart jobs (jobs working in actual McDonalds and Walmarts) are better than most manufacturing jobs ever were.

I assume you are speaking of the stereotypical manufacturing job where one can graduate HS and get started with no special training. Fully productive after a day or two.

If you want to talk about skilled manufacturing work, where you actually need specialized training (Welder, PLC Programmer, Industrial Mechanic or the like) that is a bit different. We can discuss that if you like. Trends are much the same, though.

Just out of curiosity, David, ever worked in a manufacturing plant? Ever visited one?

Many people have some serious misconceptions of what unskilled manufacturing jobs are actually like. I don't know if you are one of them but there are a lot out there.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Most McDonalds and Walmart jobs (jobs working in actual McDonalds and Walmarts) are better than most manufacturing jobs ever were.


Just keeping this gem for future use. Carry on.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:42 pm

I feel like the big winner because I just learned we only have to wait until Tuesday for a do-over of the presidential debate. I thought debates were on Thursday night like NFL football.

It seems like the fart Obama left in the air over Denver has lingered forever, perhaps the town hall format will be a clearing breeze.
Last edited by Huckleby on Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby rabble » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:43 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
Most McDonalds and Walmart jobs (jobs working in actual McDonalds and Walmarts) are better than most manufacturing jobs ever were.


Just keeping this gem for future use. Carry on.

I worked in both for years and I think that's a great idea.

How about you, John? How do you know so much about what those careers are like?
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:46 pm

rabble wrote:How about you, John? How do you know so much about what those careers are like?


Because he has worked every job out there. He's like a fucking wizard.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:50 pm

On a side note, JfH can't even vote for president/v.p. because of his place of residence.
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