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Tommy vs Tammy

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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Meade » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:36 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Thompson's statements have been rated false six times. He's also received three ratings of "pants on fire," which is determined to be an egregious lie.

How many "pants on fire" ratings has Obama received? How many statements by Obama have they rated "false"?

# of True statements by Tammy = 1
# of True statements by Tommy = 3
Tommy makes True statements at a rate 3X Tammy.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:52 am

Republican Tommy Thompson's latest ad in the Wisconsin Senate race accuses his Democratic opponent Tammy Baldwin and her supporters of lying.
The ad released statewide on Monday refers to a rating last month by the independent fact-checking group PolitiFact declaring as "false" comments made in a television spot by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.


Selective use of quotes to support your beliefs is awesome Henry. I assume it wasn't ethics that you taught in school?

Lets sum up:
Tommy said "Look Politicfacts says Tammy lied"
WSJ said "Tommy lied more often"
No one said: "Tammy didn't lie"

Henry becomes shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that politicians are less than 100% honest.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:01 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Selective use of quotes to support your beliefs is awesome Henry. I assume it wasn't ethics that you taught in school?

If Tammy received a "pants on fire" rating for egregious lies, I would have included that in my quote. But she didn't. So how is that an ethical violation? You protest too much.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:09 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Selective use of quotes to support your beliefs is awesome Henry. I assume it wasn't ethics that you taught in school?

If Tammy received a "pants on fire" rating for egregious lies, I would have included that in my quote. But she didn't. So how is that an ethical violation? You protest too much.


Who's protesting, I'm pointing out that both candidates have been less than honest at times, and in fact Tammy has been rated false a higher percent of the time. Tommy has also been rated true and mostly true far more times than Tammy. Since your premise seems to be that Tommy is less honest than Tammy, one would think an ethical review of that theory would look at how often both of them are rated as true as well as false.

Personally I don't think a politifacts score card is necessarily the best way to judge these two candidates, and am glad that we actually have two pretty decent candidates running this time around.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby juanton » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Apparently it's Tommy's turn to forget how many houses he owns. Jesus.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/0 ... _ref=false
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Selective use of quotes to support your beliefs is awesome Henry. I assume it wasn't ethics that you taught in school?

If Tammy received a "pants on fire" rating for egregious lies, I would have included that in my quote. But she didn't. So how is that an ethical violation? You protest too much.

Who's protesting...

Then why did you accuse me of an ethical violation?
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Then why did you accuse me of an ethical violation?


Maybe because you failed to show ethical integrity when analyzing the facts that you presented supporting your theory about Tommy's level of honest in comparison to Tammy's? You are of course free to do so, but I'm equally free to point out your lapse. I wouldn't really consider that protesting myself. More suggesting you review your data and see if it really supports your premise.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:12 pm

So I guess that means you are still protesting. Or maybe just quibbling.

I cited the article using the exact title from the news report. Did you want to to quote the entire article (in violation of this forum's rules)?
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:28 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:So I guess that means you are still protesting. Or maybe just quibbling.

I cited the article using the exact title from the news report. Did you want to to quote the entire article (in violation of this forum's rules)?



No thanks, I was able to get all the info I needed from reading the article from your link. Which is how I was able to compare all the numbers and reach a conclusion that neither candidate is particularly honest or dishonest. After I put those numbers up though, you decided that clearly letting people read for themselves wasn't enough, so you quoted just the part that supported your beliefs. If you want to think that I am protesting, then sure, I'm protesting your somewhat less than ethical use of quotes to support a position that seems pretty silly.

BTW original article has been updated with more information.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:39 pm

an ethical violation has occured in this thread!?
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:45 pm

Francis, the title of the article wasn't "all politians lie." Do you think the actual title used is a breach of ethical standards?
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:01 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Francis, the title of the article wasn't "all politians lie." Do you think the actual title used is a breach of ethical standards?



I don't really care about the headline, or the article. The headline is designed to pull readers in, and as is normal, usually sensationalizes the story to some extent.

My questioning your ethics only was in regards to your response when I broke down the numbers and pointed out based on the article which you posted, Tommy was on average (slightly) more likely to be rated as true than Tammy was.

So here is a question for you Henry: Based on that article(and only that article) which you linked, do you think Tommy or Tammy is more trustworthy?
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:12 pm

You taok a quantitative approach in your simplistic comparison. I took a more qualitative view, as in the "egregious lies" attributed to Tommy (and not to Tammy).
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:43 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You taok a quantitative approach in your simplistic comparison. I took a more qualitative view, as in the "egregious lies" attributed to Tommy (and not to Tammy).


Actually I did look at the quality of lies, but didn't see a good way to assign a value to them. Tommy has 3 pants on fire ratings, but the severity of them isn't really uniform and at least to me, and the line between False and Pants on fire seems somewhat subjective. Tammy's 1 False seems at least as bad as One if not two of Tommy's Pants on fires.

In addition Politifacts doesn't rate everything a candidate says, and the author seems to be reaching back to 2010 for some of Tommy's ratings but doesn't define a date range for the comparison. I'm having a hard time buying that Politifacts has only rated TT 19 times.
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Re: Tommy vs Tammy

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

I hope that wasn't an ethical lapse on their part.
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