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Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

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Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby SquirrelyJ » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:12 am

Yesterday, two Capitol Police officers showed up at my home to deliver me and my partner two tickets each for holding a banner at the Solidarity Sing Along on Monday. 2.14(2)(v) obstruct access, passage, etc. and 2.08(1)(b) holding signs over railings-prohibited. We never received any verbal warning today, $200.50 each. Additionally, one singer Brandon Barwick was given a ticket for obstructing access even though he didn't hold a banner at all. Dozens of other singers and people holding even larger banners were not ticketed at all. Selective enforcement?

http://wcmcoop.com/2012/09/10/new-capit ... citations/
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby HawkHead » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:52 am

That is horrible. I hope you win when you contest the citations.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby david cohen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:33 pm

Do the Capitol Police have any jurisdiction off of state property? Perhaps they were trespassing on your private property when they hand delivered your ticket? I'm sure an armchair lawyer here would venture to guess.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby TheBookPolice » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:14 pm

Curious (and neither trolling nor judging): have you been cited by the Capitol Police before this incident?
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:37 pm

david cohen wrote:Do the Capitol Police have any jurisdiction off of state property? Perhaps they were trespassing on your private property when they hand delivered your ticket? I'm sure an armchair lawyer here would venture to guess.


They have the same authority as any other Wisconsin law enforcement officer which pretty much means their jurisdiction includes the entire state. But I would wonder if they have too much time on their hands if they're personally delivering tickets. Remember those five guys at Culvers? The Madison police just sent them their citations by mail. I can only think that the decision to deliver citations like this in person was meant as intimidation but maybe someone can suggest a less wicked motive or reason?
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby david cohen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:48 pm

Proof of Service perhaps?
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby snoqueen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:17 pm

When you get served there's usually a sheriff or deputy at the door and all they have to do is kinda tag you with the envelope and you're considered "served." I don't know why the capitol police are doing it themselves, instead of the usual way. (That's the same thing D-man was asking.) Does the official serving the notice have to belong to the same force that issued it for some reason that applies to this instance or this force alone?

Hope you get out of this one, it's ridiculously expensive.

I'm wondering if you shouldn't contact Jeff Scott Olson, who worked a lot with Ben Masel. He knows first amendment stuff and his web page says he does a first consult free.

http://scofflaw.com/

I don't know what this would cost overall, so if it's way out of reach feel free to toss this suggestion.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby lolagirl » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:28 pm

How exactly is this working? I'm curious as I haven't been in the Capitol in a while. Are people getting ticketed for just holding signs, or for attempting to put the signs up? Is it different if you're holding a sign the way you'd hold a package vs holding the sign up in the air? How about T-shirts that have a message on them? What if someone comes in with a "go Packers" sign - will they get cited? Does the size of the sign matter - what if I come in with a "sign" that's a sheet of notebook paper?

This new chief is either a flat-out idiot or he's deliberately trying to provoke the kind of disturbance that never - despite GOP & FAUX News lies - happened during the protests.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:28 pm

david cohen wrote:Proof of Service perhaps?


Maybe, but I would think certified mail would suffice and be cheaper. I think the Culver's guys were sent theirs certified, but I could be mistaken.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby david cohen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:33 pm

Sorry, I think "proof of service" is the wrong term. Typically, when you are issued a municipal citation or a "ticket", it is done in person, by the officer who witnesses said violation. Mailing such a document, if not done by certified mail, allows the intended recipient to deny receipt. Therefore, hand delivery allows an officer to be able to testify that, indeed, the intended recipient did, in fact, receive his/her citation. Which stills begs the question: why not cite the violator, in person, during or directly after the act in question?

Maybe to subtly send a message that "we know where you live"?
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:09 pm

I don't think that they wrote citations later makes a difference. It could be that they hadn't decided whether to issue, or what to issue. But I don't know how they would know who to cite if they did not ID the people on the scene. The Culver's guys were ID'd, illegally as it turned out, but ID'd nonetheless. Are the people in the capitol so well known that there's no need to ID them? Or, could that explain why some got citations and others didn't?

I'll be surprised if the citations stand up in court. The right to free speech under the WI Constitution is arguably stronger than under the 1st Amendment. Same goes for the right to assemble and petition the government. (Art. 1, Section 3 and Section 4)
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby The One » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:14 pm

THIS IS TRAGIC AND AN OUTRAGE!!! What's tragic is that people are bitching about not being given a warning, when they know damn well the rules. If they don't know by now, then someone else must have wrote the sign for them because they are a morons, which I'm sure the regulars at the capitol are not....pretty sure.

Chief Erwin has sent the message loud and clear. He will enforce the rules of the state capitol. If people want to take him on, I'm sure he'll welcome it. The cops get paid to be there and now it looks like the capitol regulars will pay to be there. Plus, with close to two years having to put up with the capitol regulars, I'm sure the rank and file of the Capitol Police are happy to write them up.

The protesters have 4 options. 1: They can keep bring signs and pay the tickets. 2: They can stop with the signs and follow the rules that are in place. 3: They can take their signs to the DOA and have them change the rules. 4: They have the court change the rules.

Good luck :lol:
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby Donald » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:55 pm

Is there any requirement that you open your door to a Capitol police officer? If they don't have a search warrant they can stand there all night long. I have security locks and a buzzer, and I'm not opening my door to the palace guard. I'm the king here in my castle. Castle doctrine---does it apply?
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby ilikebeans » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:59 pm

They are now also handing out citations at workplaces.

Madison Protesters Respond to the Knock on the Door

Nice little quote here:
Protesters also gathered to denounce Capitol Police chief David Erwin for referring to them, the day before the anniversary of 9/11, as “terrorists, for lack of a better word.” One protester held up a sign that said, “Singing Is Not Terrorism.”

This can't go to court soon enough. Perhaps Ed Garvey's firm will be interested in getting involved. I know they occasionally do pro bono work for important civil rights cases.
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Re: Capitol Police Hand Deliver Tickets To My Home

Postby Steve Vokers » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:15 pm

The cops are chicken shits. They didn't like the optics of 10 cops surrounding a protester who invariably went along peacefully, which is the approach they were using before they switched to this. Now because they are afraid of doing the deed in front of people armed with cellphone cameras, they've resorted to this.

They think it will generate less bad publicity. They are wrong.
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