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Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:36 am

Florida to use federal database to challenge legitimacy of voters

...critics say it targets the poor and minority voters who may be disenfranchised by the process. The poor, voting and civil rights groups say, can not afford to pay for documentation that may be required, while minorities would likely be among the groups whose voter registration records are examined.

A number of states are moving to institute and tighten voter identification laws, and many are finding themselves in direct conflict with the federal government. A key provision of the landmark Voting Rights Act of 1965 grants the federal government open-ended oversight of states and localities -- many in the South -- with a history of voter discrimination. Any changes in voting laws and procedures in those pre-determined areas must be "pre-cleared" by Washington.

Today, 32 states have in place varying degrees of voter identification laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Some of the states with the most stringent requirements are also regions that have seen large increases in their minority population.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby snoqueen » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:28 pm

But Nate Silver, on the FiveThirtyEight blog, thinks his numbers show the ID laws have relatively little net effect:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... n-laws/?hp

I'm not sure I agree completely, because in an extremely close election (like we get in Wisconsin these days) winners can be separated from losers by a hundredth of a percent or less.

Silver does not address the issue of principles, a basic one being that everybody has the right to one vote and to set up artificial obstacles to exercising that right is wrong on principle, just as poll taxes and fake "literacy" exams are. He's talking strictly about results.

But read it for yourself and decide.

And enjoy the graphs to the right of the text.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Slick Willy » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:52 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:...critics say it targets the poor and minority voters who may be disenfranchised by the process. The poor, voting and civil rights groups say, can not afford to pay for documentation that may be required, while minorities would likely be among the groups whose voter registration records are examined.

I tried using that argument for WI but soon found out that getting an ID card for voting is free in this state at least.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/dr ... idcard.htm
Some people don't know that, though, so it's still a deterrent. For college students who only need their photo college IDs to do anything on campus, including drink, it's also a deterrent, because they understandably don't want to go off campus and wait in line for an hour or two just to get a state ID to vote. Also, there are just those random cases when people lose their ID, forget their ID, or have their purses/wallets stolen. The incidence of voter fraud is so miniscule, anyway, (never flipped a US election) that it doesn't make up for how large of a deterrent the voter ID law is.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Donald » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:01 pm

Yes, you can get a free ID, but you have to have supporting documentation, often from other states, and getting that can add up to quite a lot of money, not to mention hassle. It's an unconstitutional poll tax.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:11 am

Has anyone here registered to vote recently? By recently, I mean recently enough where you can clearly remember the process.

I registered 30-35 years ago and don't remember the process at all. I would imagine I had to show ID but don't know what kind. I had to re-register 10-15 years ago when they came out with a new, more secure ID card. I don't remember that process either other than that I had to to the local office of the state election commission to get my picture taken. I suspect that I had to show a utility bill or something as proof of address but do not remember specifically.

In 1998, when my daughter moved to Illinois, I went with her to get a new driver's license and they registered her to vote. Of course they had all sorts of ID to get the license.

My question is, if I moved to Wisconsin, or any other state, what do I need to do, what ID do I need to show, to register? If I do not have ID, can I still register? If so, how? If I do not have a fixed address, if I am homeless, how do I get assigned to a voting district?

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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:18 am

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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:19 am

Bob Mirch, the retired city public works commissioner and former GOP majority leader of the County Legislature, uncovered evidence of absentee ballot fraud, which sparked the investigation into 59 questionable ballots.

Brown; Anthony DeFiglio, a former Troy Housing Authority clerk and Democratic insider; former City Clerk William McInerney; and Anthony Renna, who worked for the City Council and the party, pleaded guilty this month to felonies.

DeFiglio had told State Police investigators early on in the probe that absentee ballot rigging in the city was a "normal political tactic."

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article ... z20tSlw8wD


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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:27 am

Henry Vilas wrote:http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/voters/registration-voting/


Thanks Henry.

Looks like that answers my question. According to that, in order to register to vote there is a Federal requirement (in addition to state and local requirements) that one show valid identification including proof of address. There does not seem to be any requirement for proof of US citizenship, though. Just state citizenship/residency. That strikes me odd.

So, 2 more questions:

If one had to show ID to register, what is the problem with asking for that same ID to vote?

Or, better IMHO, do like we do here in PR and issue a Voter ID card that is used (required here) to vote? That can be issued, as here, at time of registration.

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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:31 am

From my link:
Photo ID
Two separate judges, on March 6 and March 12, 2012, have issued injunctions preventing the Government Accountability Board from enforcing photo ID requirements in 2011 Act 23. The Wisconsin Department of Justice has appealed those injunctions, and the appeals have been certified to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. For additional information regarding the status of the voter photo ID law, please see the Voter Photo ID Law page.

Proof of Residence
The following constitute acceptable Proof-of-Residence if the document contains your current name and address and is valid on Election Day (unless otherwise indicated):

1.A current and valid Wisconsin driver license.
2.A current and valid Wisconsin identification card.
3.Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit.
4.Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card.
5.A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election.
6.A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail).
7.A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo), ONLY if the bearer provides a fee receipt dated within the last nine months or the institution provides a certified housing list to the municipal clerk.
8.A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day.
9.Bank statement.
10.Paycheck.
11.A check or other document issued by a unit of government.

Notice that no picture ID is required to register.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:16 pm

500,000 face major challenges with voter-ID laws

A survey of 10 states that require people to show government-issued photo IDs to vote finds many voters could face transportation and financial challenges in obtaining the proper identification.Attorney General Eric Holder is welcomed at the NAACP annual convention July 10 in Houston. Holder says he opposes a new photo ID requirement in Texas elections because it would be harmful to minority voters.

The study, published today by the Brennan Center of Justice at the New York University School of Law, notes that nearly 500,000 eligible voters in those states without IDs do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office.

The finding bolsters U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder's argument that the new tougher restrictions would require some voters -- disproportionately minorities -- to travel great distances and struggle to pay for necessary documents to obtain the IDs.

In rural Texas, some without driver's licences would have to travel over 100 miles to the nearest state office to get their ID.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby DCB » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:57 pm

That voter fraud. Its a really serious problem, probably. Cause, you know, it just is.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/07/24/ ... ter-fraud/
The state signed a stipulation agreement with lawyers for the plaintiffs which acknowledges there “have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states.”

Additionally, the agreement states Pennsylvania “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere” or even argue “that in person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.”


But lets fix it anyway.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:05 pm

In Pennsylvania, they're having a voter ID struggle much like Wisconsin's. Naturally, civil rights groups have sued, as they did here, but the state of Pennsylvania has made an astounding admission in a court filing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plu ... inions_pop

The state signed a stipulation agreement with lawyers for the plaintiffs which acknowledges there “have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states.”


The article continues:
Given the complete absence of voter fraud, the law’s rapid implementation, and the strong support from Republican lawmakers, it’s more than clear that this is a crude attempt to suppress Democratic turnout in the election. Pennsylvania Republicans aren’t shy about this fact.


I would be curious to know what Wisconsin's (and this forum's) loud defenders of our own voter ID law think about this admission, particularly given the way they kept claiming fraud had been found in Milwaukee (or someplace) and we just had to have this legislation to keep our elections honest.

Really, now?

And the rest of you: Do you think these ID laws are a deliberate attempt to decrease Democratic voting, or a purposeful distraction to deter investigation of the fraud that might more realistically be occurring: fraudulent vote tabulation? Or both?

Another question: do you think voter suppression at this level is just run-of-the-mill political chicanery similar to redistricting in favor of whatever party is in power at redistricting time? Or is it something more objectionable, along the lines of voting laws of the twentieth century that were found to systematically violate civil rights?
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby DCB » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:40 pm

snoqueen wrote:In Pennsylvania, they're having a voter ID struggle much like Wisconsin's. Naturally, civil rights groups have sued, as they did here, but the state of Pennsylvania has made an astounding admission in a court filing:


So I've heard.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Rich Schultz » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:46 am

If the liberals on this forum are so unhappy with the inconvenience of dealing with the DMV over something as simple as obtaining an ID why do they want to inflict a similar bureaucracy on our medical system?

Image
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Archipants » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:09 am

Rich Schultz wrote:If the liberals on this forum are so unhappy with the inconvenience of dealing with the DMV over something as simple as obtaining an ID why do they want to inflict a similar bureaucracy on our medical system?

Can you explain exactly what you mean by this with concrete examples comparing the a DMV process with actual citations from the "Obamacare" legislation?

Cuz for a minute there I thought you might be just using your puppet master's talking points to threadjack...
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