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Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

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Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Shorty » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:47 pm

This is why we need to raise taxes on the rich.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... e=1&ref=nf
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:09 pm

Shorty wrote:This is why we need to raise taxes on the rich.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... e=1&ref=nf


Your logic is definitely there.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby peripat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:32 pm

Good that you recognize that. We nearly hit a second great depression because we decided not to tax the rich and not to regulate the financial industries.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Notice the way the noise machine pretty much bypassed this topic ("tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression," in case you forgot) while everyone's bogged down parsing Teddy Roosevelt quotes and arguing over whether Meade's throwing up distractions/derailments on the Cieslewicz thread.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:37 pm

Which is more important, the tax rate or the amount of taxes actually collected?
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:40 pm

Important in what way?
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:46 pm

I've always found actual money spends better than hypothetical money.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby pjbogart » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:10 pm

It may come as a great shock to most Republicans, but progressive income taxes are not engineered solely to be "fair." If you need to collect $100 million and you want to do so in a way that maximizes economic activity, you tax the people who spend the smallest percentage of their income and then give rebates and credits to the people who spend the highest percentage of their income.

If you think that's unfair and would like all people to pay the same amount, then economic activity will be severely hampered because the people who spend 100% of their disposable income will no longer have any disposable income. They won't go to restaurants, movies or bars and those businesses will in turn lay off workers which will create an even larger pool of people who don't spend any money other than what they need for basic survival.

Now, I understand that the response to this is to go back to the $100 million and say, "the government simply needs to spend less than that." But even if you cut government spending in half, you still need to decide how to collect that money while maximizing economic activity.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:39 pm

Which is more important, the tax rate or the amount of taxes actually collected?


Important in what way?


I like pj's practical response, which points out if enough people don't have any money, not a lot of purchasing is going to happen beyond the very basics and the economy will falter.

But I still don't know how the tax rate could be more "important" than the amount collected or vice versa. The two work together.

The idea is to get enough money together to govern. Part (not all) of the job of governing includes taking steps to help the state's economy, and you can do a cheap job or a good job but not both -- same as any job, really.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:26 pm

Image
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Shorty » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:30 pm

Rich Schultz wrote:Which is more important, the tax rate or the amount of taxes actually collected?

Raising rates on the wealthy will increase amount of taxes. Not sure of your point, as usual.

Even conservative Republican, Lindsey Graham, is now saying taxes should be raised. "We're so far in debt, that if you don't give up some ideological ground, the country sinks," said Graham.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-playe ... 21355.html
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Detritus » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:44 pm

Rich Schultz wrote:Image

In other words, the poor and middle class have been paying an increasing share of total income taxes since the early 1960s, with huge drops in the Reagan and Bush I administrations. So what's your point?
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:04 pm

Look again, The red line on the first chart is the rate not revenue.

Before the Bush tax cuts, the top 1% of wage earners paid 37% of all income tax revenue. Now, after the Bush tax cuts, the top 1% are paying 39% of a total income tax bite. That's a 2% increase in the share of total taxes paid by the rich, the top 1%, since the Bush tax cuts went into effect. By the same token, before the Bush tax cuts, the top 5% paid 56% of all income tax revenue. Now the top 5% are paying 60%, after the Bush tax cuts.
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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:30 pm

This was not the first time tax revenue went up following cuts in tax rates. It happened in the 1920s. It happened again in the 1960s when President Kennedy’s tax cut plan was implemented

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Re: Tax rates on wealthy lowest since before Depression

Postby Cornbread » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:39 pm

peripat wrote:Good that you recognize that.

If you're talking to me, my comment on his logic was....his facebook link was unavailable. ;)
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