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Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby snoqueen » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:32 pm

A juice fast is the not same thing as a balanced vegetarian diet, as people here have been trying to show you. If you want to change your diet (temporarily or not) I don't understand why you'd experiment with the former instead of trying the latter. What possible sense does it make to remove all the fiber from your vegetables and then add some back?

In addition, psyllium is a laxative and taking psyllium husks comes with several cautions. Are you sure that's what you want?
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:40 pm

snoqueen wrote:A juice fast is the not same thing as a balanced vegetarian diet, as a little research will indicate. If you want to change your diet (temporarily or not) I don't understand why you'd experiment with the former instead of trying the latter.


The biggest factor as I've said is the "buzz" effect. I stated I would like to kick my morning caffeine trap. I eat tons of produce already as part of an already balanced diet. But I would still like more energy similar to what caffeine does for me. The concentrated doses of readily-absorbed micronutrients seems to be beneficial in that regard. I simply can't eat enough produce to do that.

I also wouldn't mind losing 5-10 lbs of winter "build up", if you want to call it that. Some people may refer to it as FAT. And it seems the faster you lose weight, the more likely it is to stay off.

Just curious, what does a balanced vegetarian or vegan diet provide that I will not have available to me over the next 2 weeks?
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 pm

snoqueen wrote:In addition, psyllium is a laxative and taking psyllium husks comes with several cautions. Are you sure that's what you want?


Most fiber has a laxative effect... in that it helps keep you regular. And I'll really only be replacing the fiber that has been stripped from the produce. And yes, psyllium seed husk is what I want to use.
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:12 pm

Remember_Me wrote:it seems the faster you lose weight, the more likely it is to stay off.

Got a source for this claim?
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:45 pm

There's tons of claims of this.

It helps both physically and mentally when done correctly.

And this.
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:53 pm

Remember_Me wrote:physically
This study was done on obese people. You've led me to believe you already eat well and are in pretty decent shape, you just want to drop 5-10 pounds. Not sure if it makes sense to extrapolate the results. (Not saying it doesn't, especially given the other links you provided -- just my skepticism kicking in again.)
But this concerns me a little more:
fast, or those who lost an average of 1½ lbs (0.68 kg) per week
If you plan to lose 5-10 pounds in 2 weeks, that's significantly quicker than anyone in this study.

Remember_Me wrote:mentally
From this link: "Doctors recommend weight loss at the rate of two pounds per week"

Remember_Me wrote:And this.
This one has patients losing 3 pounds a week, which falls within the low end of your target goal. But then there's this:
Purcell however warned against self dieting in this manner. She said, “Don't do it by yourself; do it with a dietician.”

The drawback of the study was that there was no follow up of the subjects. It is a belief that rapid weight loss is often related to more weight gain thereafter, and therefore less weight maintenance.


Remember_Me wrote: when done correctly.

You might want to heed your own caveat. Since earlier this thread you made me your honorary dad, I feel it's my duty to say this.
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby snoqueen » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:06 pm

I've never tried dieting -- seriously, I don't know how I even got sucked in to this topic -- but isn't the whole idea to retrain your habits and tastes so you don't get overweight again? I don't get the mind set behind dieting like crazy, losing a bunch of weight, and then going right back to the old way of eating which was how you got in trouble to begin with.

I would think a new diet was for life, so you'd want one you can actually follow and still enjoy your food. And I'd think a juice fast was going in the opposite direction. But never mind. If you want to do a juice fast and you want someone to encourage you or something, maybe you've asked the wrong forum.

However, if all you want to do is get off caffeine, my own experience is that it's do-able. If you get a headache the first couple days, take something for the headache. Drink caffeine-free tea or even hot water with some lemon if you want a hot beverage. If you drink coffee for social reasons, just pick the decaf. Getting used to the change doesn't take long. Once you quit, caffeine feels really weird and jiggly and you probably won't want to start again. That's my experience and I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:42 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:This study was done on obese people. You've led me to believe you already eat well and are in pretty decent shape, you just want to drop 5-10 pounds. Not sure if it makes sense to extrapolate the results. (Not saying it doesn't, especially given the other links you provided -- just my skepticism kicking in again.)


I'm in very good shape actually. Doesn't mean I still wouldn't mind losing 5-10 lbs. And I imagine most studies on long-term weightloss would focus on overweight or obese people. Why would you study thin ones for weightloss? I would imagine the results are the same on whether you're trying to lose 10 lbs quickly or 50. But yes, for all intents and purposes it's basically extrapolation. But I knew that going in and am fine with it.

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:But this concerns me a little more: fast, or those who lost an average of 1½ lbs (0.68 kg) per week...If you plan to lose 5-10 pounds in 2 weeks, that's significantly quicker than anyone in this study.


If I were to lose 5 lbs in 2 weeks I'd be thrilled and anything but concerned. Probably a lot of water weight anyway. The weightloss benefits to me are simply a bonus. But I appreciate your concern.

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:From this link: "Doctors recommend weight loss at the rate of two pounds per week".


Some still do. Some still do a lot of things they've believed for years and years despite new studies like the one in the other link. Some say lose as much as quickly as your health will allow. My gf works with a woman who had the gastric stapling done and she lost 100 lbs in less about 4 months... that's almost a pound a day. I just saw her a couple weeks ago and she looks fantastic and said she's never felt better in her life. And she's in her 40s at least and had diabetes. And I stress had because she says it's cured now.

Anyway, If you don't see a post from me over the next couple weeks we'll know I've passed on and that I should've only lost the maximum of 2 lbs/wk like you and the good doctors said. I'll leave you my FSND DVD.... well, provided you're able to go on...

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:She said, “Don't do it by yourself; do it with a dietician.”


Hey, I'm all for doing it with a dietician... provided she's cute (we already know she'll be thin!).

Seriously though, my doctor is a dietician. He specializes in nutrition and sports medicine and in a few weeks we'll even be on the links together for a charity outing. Not only is he my physician, but he's a good personal friend of my aunt and uncle... for like 25 years now. I emailed him of my intentions and he was enthusiastic about it and wanted me to share my results.

I'm not saying what I'm doing is for everybody. In fact, I wasn't touting this to anyone when I started the topic. I was simply asking for advice on juicing from others who already have before. But hey, if it opens up a dialogue and gets more people talking about nutrition... bonus!

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:You might want to heed your own caveat.


I have. But thank you.

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Since earlier this thread you made me your honorary dad, I feel it's my duty to say this.


Send a check instead. 8)
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:39 am

Remember_Me wrote:Why would you study thin ones for weightloss?
To learn information about people just like you who are doing what you're doing.

Remember_Me wrote:Some [doctors] still do a lot of things they've believed for years and years despite new studies like the one in the other link.
No doubt this is true, unfortunately. This is yet another reason why second opinions for anything truly serious are always a good idea (if not always practical.)

Remember_Me wrote:If you don't see a post from me over the next couple weeks we'll know I've passed on...
I certainly hope you survive, but if you don't and you could make a post from The Other Side, you'd really be helping us out in the atheism thread.
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby JanetMarek » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:25 pm

I think many of you are missing the point. I can tell you from personal experience fasting saved my life. And it is not just because I lost 135 lbs but I also had a serious medical condition that dissapeared during my first fasting. The goal is to let your body rest and repair. I fasted three times at the TrueNorth health center in California because there is no place or no one here that would help. Seeing a lifetime of bad health literally reverse itself after my fasting is nothing short of a miracle.

I decided to fast after my pet was ill and would not eat, the vet mentioned animals fast when they are sick as it helps them heal. The vet said food is really the cause of most animals disease they see. I figured if animals instincitively fast when ill why is the rest of the medical society against it.

So sad our fast paced medical perscription based system is an abysmal faileure as most everyone is getting sicker and is on meds. Fasting saved my life!
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Re: Fasting, cleansing, and related food fads

Postby bleurose » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:52 am

First of all - diabetes is never cured. It can, however, be managed by certain lifestyle changes (diet, exercise) to the point that exogenous insulin is not required. That, by itself, does NOT mean that the underlying disorder is "cured".

And secondly, animals do not consciously "fast during periods of illness to help restore their health". There are metabolic changes going on which naturally affect the central appetite sensors. It's basic biology 101, not some anthropomorphic shit that the family dog has "learned" how to do.

Sheesh, where DO people get this stuff??!!
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