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The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Then there are the Scientologolists and their strong objection to psychiatric medicine. Should they be exempt from federal mandates on mental health coverage?

So far Huck, you have only been defending the Catholic viewpoint.


I am for finding face-saving compromises for religions where possible.

Every situation is different, it's a balancing. The Scientologists probably can't be accomodated.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:17 pm

So again, it comes down to you defending the Catholic view and only the Catholic view. How transparent of you.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:50 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:So again, it comes down to you defending the Catholic view and only the Catholic view. How transparent of you.


I don't think I've ever encountered such a black & white thinker.

Issues are not like a war where you pick a side and demonize and destroy the enemy.

I have mostly tried to understand and explain the CAtholic view, and I've opposed religous bigotry. That doesn't make me pro-Catholic, and the fact that I don't see much room to accomodate the Christian Scientist position doesn't mean I'm biased against them.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby rabble » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:02 pm

But why choose to explain or denounce just the Catholic and the Christian Scientists? Why not explain the Baha'i, Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Wicca and other Neopagan religions, Zoroastrianism, and Druidism? Or the dozens or hundreds of Shamanic cultures in the various tribes of the world?

Why feel the need to explain to us why Catholics feel the way they do?

I'm all for this whole "keep an open mind" thing but you seem to be fixated on getting us to understand the Catholics. I think it would be more appropriate to fit the Catholic mindset into the context of all those others, if an open mind is the goal.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby WestSideYuppie » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:31 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:So again, it comes down to you defending the Catholic view and only the Catholic view. How transparent of you.


I don't think I've ever encountered such a black & white thinker.

Issues are not like a war where you pick a side and demonize and destroy the enemy.

I have mostly tried to understand and explain the Catholic view, and I've opposed religous bigotry. That doesn't make me pro-Catholic, and the fact that I don't see much room to accomodate the Christian Scientist position doesn't mean I'm biased against them.


I'm not sure you can even say that you're explaining "the Catholic view." I know Catholics have a lot of different views, but "we don't know when human life begins" isn't one of them. It's like you're pretending to defend someone, while misrepresenting their position and making it seem ridiculous.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:23 pm

rabble wrote: Why feel the need to explain to us why Catholics feel the way they do?

Because that is the topic at hand. The Obama - Catholic confrontation is in the news, and is the backdrop of this thread. I guess there are two topics interwoven here, one about science/religion, the other about the Catholic church, abortion/Obamacare/contraception.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:27 pm

WestSideYuppie wrote:I'm not sure you can even say that you're explaining "the Catholic view." I know Catholics have a lot of different views, but "we don't know when human life begins" isn't one of them. It's like you're pretending to defend someone, while misrepresenting their position and making it seem ridiculous.


I don't know what you are talking about. There are different topics in this thread which you are conflating. The "catholic view" I was mostly explaining was their reaction to the contraceptive mandate.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby WestSideYuppie » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:12 am

Huckleby wrote:
WestSideYuppie wrote:I'm not sure you can even say that you're explaining "the Catholic view." I know Catholics have a lot of different views, but "we don't know when human life begins" isn't one of them. It's like you're pretending to defend someone, while misrepresenting their position and making it seem ridiculous.


I don't know what you are talking about. There are different topics in this thread which you are conflating. The "catholic view" I was mostly explaining was their reaction to the contraceptive mandate.


I'm not sure that you're capably representing that view either.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:41 am

Any other snarky remarks you'd care to share?
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Detritus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:05 am

Don't you people sleep?
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:45 am

Huckleby wrote:
rabble wrote: Why feel the need to explain to us why Catholics feel the way they do?

Because that is the topic at hand. The Obama - Catholic confrontation is in the news, and is the backdrop of this thread.

And it is in the news because it is powerful enough to directly influence matters of state.

Instead of rendering unto Caesar, it is telling Caesar what the rules are.

Rather than trying to walk a mile in the Catholic shoes (and I, by the way, have worn out several pair of those) should we not be spending our time discussing the notion that we only seem to worry about understanding those religions who have attained enough power to force their religious beliefs on others?

Should we not be discussing whether all spiritual beliefs are equal and when one sect has reached a position of power, does this grant them the right to pick and choose which laws of the land they abide by?

Rather than understanding their reasons for doing what they do, would it not be more pertinent to discuss how they are able to get away with chipping apart the separation of church and state, and the long-term ramifications of that upon our culture?
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 am

Huckleby wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:So again, it comes down to you defending the Catholic view and only the Catholic view. How transparent of you.


I don't think I've ever encountered such a black & white thinker.

Go to the mirror, boy.

I don't think I've ever encountered such a fuzzy (non)thinker.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 am

Huckleby wrote:The Scientologists probably can't be accomodated.

Did somebody mention narrow-mindedness?
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby peripat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:55 am

I don't care what the Catholics or the Scientologists or the Jains think about birth control. I start to care when they force their beliefs on me and make all of us pay to implement their belief systems (which is what is happening now).
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:02 am

peripat wrote:I don't care what the Catholics or the Scientologists or the Jains think about birth control. I start to care when they force their beliefs on me and make all of us pay to implement their belief systems (which is what is happening now).

That is indeed what's happening now. The whole "understand the opposition" and "see it from their perspective" tactic is disingenuous at best because A, they are making no effort to reciprocate or compromise, B, it implies absolution for doing what they're doing, and C, implies that perhaps we should give them what they want.
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