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Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Meade » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:14 pm

Well done, bikingguy.

Madison notwithstanding, I would be a little more right-wing with the signs:

"By city ordinance: $150 fine for failure to make self visible dusk to dawn. Fines double if failure to make visible leads to collision."
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:24 pm

Right wing. That's funny, 'cause the right is the one who keeps yelling "NANNY STATE" all the time. And yet, here's meade saying more regulatin' is a rightwing trait.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:33 pm

rabble wrote:And yet, here's meade saying more regulatin' is a rightwing trait.


It puzzles me. Regulate the cyclists or regulate the financial industry. Hmmmmm, which do I prefer?
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Meade » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:34 pm

Nanny state would be lighting your path all the way for you, rabble, and then singing you a lullaby and putting you to bed with a warm cup of organic milk.

Right-wing is making you peddle your own damn bike, carry your own lights and safety yellow vest, and kicking your ass if you cause someone else (who doesn't fail to play by the rules) to get hurt.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:42 pm

Meade wrote:Nanny state would be lighting your path all the way for you, rabble, and then singing you a lullaby and putting you to bed with a warm cup of organic milk.

Right-wing is making you peddle your own damn bike, carry your own lights and safety yellow vest, and kicking your ass if you cause someone else (who doesn't fail to play by the rules) to get hurt.

Right. It's only nanny state if it's somebody else's regulations. Now THAT does sound like the way the republicans do it.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Meade » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:20 pm

Specifically, what regulations are you talking about, rabble?

Bike path traffic regulations? I don't think it's particularly Democrat or Republican to require people to not cause traffic accidents. Do you?
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby bikingguy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:59 pm

In response,

I'd love to help create Burma Shave style signs for the path. For kids in the 50's - bouncing, without seat belts, around the backseats of the steel boats that were cars back - to press up against the right rear window consuming those signs was a rare treat in quirky humor back then.

Retro would work well on the SW path, although I call on the sign-makers who developed truly creative and poetic signs during the Capitol fun last Winter/Spring to develop much better jingles than I proposed as starters. For one thing, the mock "Burma Shave" sign at the end should probably say "Be Seen" rather than "Be Safe."

There's lots of data confirming that lighting of the type now proposed would likely increase crime. For example, there is a lot of data on the strong connection between light pollution and increased crime: "Light Pollution Endangers Our Security and Our Safety, "
http://physics.fau.edu/observatory/lightpol-security.html.

I absolutely agree that even those Burma Shave signs should not be lit. I anticipated those who might say that bikers riding at night without lights would not see the signs so that, to be effective, solar lighting with a really low wattage might be required to do the trick. But I agree that most riders who ride at night without lights probably do so during the daytime and could otherwise see the signs. I also wager that, if those riders realized that their practices could cause major lighting of the path, a fair percentage would get and use lights. No data on that, but an educated guess. I'll bet most are just relying on their night vision and just don;t realize that they are creating any problem.

To reach those who now can't be seen, however, we gotta use humor, and do things in ways that speak to those who aren't there yet. "It's against the law" just would not, for many in that group, be enough. We have to think of ways that get the point across and bring people in rather than push people away. But ultimately, for bikers that don't get the message, enforcement - not lighting - is the answer. By the way, requiring alight that can be seen for 500 feet essentially means requiring a light that allows the biker to see one heck of a lot.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby WestSideYuppie » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:43 am

Meade wrote:Nanny state would be lighting your path all the way for you, rabble, and then singing you a lullaby and putting you to bed with a warm cup of organic milk.

Right-wing is making you peddle your own damn bike, carry your own lights and safety yellow vest, and kicking your ass if you cause someone else (who doesn't fail to play by the rules) to get hurt.


LOL, right-wing is tearing up the bike path and giving the land away to a well connected developer, along with a tax break while prohibiting bikes because they interfere with sperm production. :mrgreen:
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby WestSideYuppie » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:45 am

But seriously, while we wait for lights to be installed, or not installed, we could all engage in some nonviolent vigilation by stopping and educating the 2 or 3 people who are probably responsible for 99% of the problem. I think it was in NYC where the police gave away blinkies as a way to promote bike safety.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby RecallSkinnyJeans » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:17 am

But seriously, I ignore the sanctimonious types. I don't care if they talk at me or shake their fingers at me. Who are you? I ride past them as they talk at me and demand that I care what they think about me. Whatever. Considering my skills on a bike are vastly superior to theirs, what makes them think they are better than me?

Passive aggressive vigilantism (a Madison euphemism for on-the-spot lecturers/educators) is for losers and creeps. I have a better idea. Use your own energy and worry about yourself and increase your own skill set instead of trying to drag me down to your level. Win win.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:02 am

We could call it Blinkies not Blankies.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby DCB » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:37 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
rabble wrote:And yet, here's meade saying more regulatin' is a rightwing trait.


It puzzles me. Regulate the cyclists or regulate the financial industry. Hmmmmm, which do I prefer?

The one that has a $1.5 billion benefit to our State? or the one brought on the Great Recession?

Oops, looks Obama is going for the latter.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:02 pm

DCB wrote:or the one brought on the Great Recession?


Uh, it was the lack of regulation that allowed the financial industry to crumble.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:06 pm

WestSideYuppie wrote:But seriously, while we wait for lights to be installed, or not installed, we could all engage in some nonviolent vigilation by stopping and educating the 2 or 3 people who are probably responsible for 99% of the problem. I think it was in NYC where the police gave away blinkies as a way to promote bike safety.
I nearly suggested the same thing - for a tiny fraction of $250,000 we could put a blinkie on every nighttime cyclist out there.

Speaking of nonviolent vigilation, last night I nearly collided with an unlighted cyclist on the SW path - he was crossing the path riding downhill on Commonwealth in black clothing with no lights. There are no streetlights in that particular section, so it was only by the sound of the freewheel that I noticed the cyclist. I stopped and let him go by. As he passed I said "Hey, how about some lights?" Response: The Bird. You too, buddy, you too.

Also, Meade - you are a Nanny Statist. Giving people citations for nonviolent, victimless behaviors that you don't approve of (giving tickets to cyclists who aren't properly equipped) is Nannying. The same standard applies to cars, of course.
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Re: Lights on the Southwest Bike Path

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:09 pm

ArturoBandini wrote: he was crossing the path riding downhill on Commonwealth in black clothing with no lights.


Why is it that those people who refuse to use a light also tend to wear dark if not all black clothing.
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