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Blessing in Disguise?

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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:51 am

As for your old guy scenario, I propose the Waltons solution: more old people need to live with their kids.


Hmm. This'll be interesting.

I'm in my sixties, never married, no kids, no siblings with kids (I am not making this up) and I am basically the last in my line. My nearest younger relatives are a few children of cousins, some of whom I've never met at all and none of whom lives less than 1000 miles from me.

I know, our family blew it. But who gets to take care of me in 25 years in your scenario?

Add in the fact we have longevity in our genes and routinely live into our nineties, usually but not always in pretty good shape.

I know other women (always women) in the same situation, incidentally. We aren't noisy, but there are more than a few of us out here. And we haven't spent our lives as social parasites, either.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby jman111 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:01 am

sno, your iceberg awaits. :wink:
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby wack wack » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:06 am

bdog wrote:
jman111 wrote:Oooohhhh, protect the family creators.
I see a pattern here.

We already do that and there is very little questioning of it.

As a single person I would love to see the pregnancy leaves shit-canned and everyone gets X weeks off to do with as they see fit.


Aw hell, why stop there? Let's just get women out of the work place completely.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:15 am

wack wack wrote:
bdog wrote:
jman111 wrote:Oooohhhh, protect the family creators.
I see a pattern here.

We already do that and there is very little questioning of it.

As a single person I would love to see the pregnancy leaves shit-canned and everyone gets X weeks off to do with as they see fit.


Aw hell, why stop there? Let's just get women out of the work place completely.

Men get pregnancy leaves too.

So you are all for protecting breeders and to hell with everyone else?

Nice.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:18 am

snoqueen wrote:
As for your old guy scenario, I propose the Waltons solution: more old people need to live with their kids.


But who gets to take care of me in 25 years in your scenario?


bdog wrote:Start with the Waltons approach and then have the social safety net kick in for additional needs or for those elderly without families.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby wack wack » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:19 am

bdog wrote:Men get pregnancy leaves too.

So you are all for protecting breeders and to hell with everyone else?

Nice.


Are you familiar with "does not follow"? You nailed it.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:30 am

wack wack wrote:
bdog wrote:Men get pregnancy leaves too.

So you are all for protecting breeders and to hell with everyone else?

Nice.


Are you familiar with "does not follow"? You nailed it.

Ha! I think you just stole the Glass Houses award from Joyce!
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby wack wack » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:32 am

bdog wrote:
wack wack wrote:
bdog wrote:Men get pregnancy leaves too.

So you are all for protecting breeders and to hell with everyone else?

Nice.


Are you familiar with "does not follow"? You nailed it.

Ha! I think you just stole the Glass Houses award from Joyce!


Yeah? How's that?
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby kurt_w » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:43 pm

As a single person I would love to see the pregnancy leaves shit-canned and everyone gets X weeks off to do with as they see fit.


First of all ... there is not generally any such thing as "pregnancy leave" in the US. There is parental leave, available to new mothers or new fathers. Being "single" doesn't matter. If you have a new child, by adoption or birth, whether you're single, married, or civilly-united, you're eligible.

Secondly ... most of the US has no paid parental leave at all. Government and very large employers are required to offer up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave, subject to lots of restrictions. Smaller employers don't have to offer even a single day of unpaid parental leave.

And finally ...it is always a little mind-boggling to read comments from people who apparently are under the mistaken impression that parental leave is some kind of special reward for parents, whose purpose is to convey society's belief that parents are just naturally wonderful special people who deserve lots of treats that the lowly childless don't get.

I can understand why that would be annoying to people who don't have children. But that is not the point of parental leave. It is not a reward for parents.

We offer parental leave (briefly, with no pay, and only for those with the right kinds of employers) because newborn children (or newly adopted young children) require an immense amount of care, and we as a society have decided it's better to (grudgingly, and minimally) facilitate the provision of that care by the new child's parent(s), as opposed to the alternatives such as:

* paying for someone other than the child's parent(s) to provide care;
* forcing the child's parent(s) to quit their job(s) to provide care;
* throwing newborns into some kind of collective institutional facility; or
* not having new children cared for at all.

In fact, America's parental leave policies are absurdly, counter-productively stingy. But if bdog is seriously unhappy at the prospect of not being allowed to take 12 weeks off work with no pay in exchange for spending untold hours in pediatricians' waiting rooms, changing endless numbers of diapers, not getting more than a couple of hours of undisturbed sleep in any 24-hour period, and cutting back on all other household expenses to pay for all the sudden new costs of raising a child ...

... well, then I would advise bdog to run not walk to his employer's HR office and ask about the possibility of getting 12 weeks of unpaid leave to seek treatment for mental illness. A few minutes of conversation with the HR director ought to convince them of the request's validity.

-----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer #1: Yes, I'm a parent. No, neither I nor Ms Kurt ever took a single day of parental leave because the "benefits" are so freakin' minimal that in our case it made more sense for Ms Kurt to just quit her job when our child was born. Fortunately, we were able to handle the 40% cut in our household income, accompanied by a sudden leap in expenses, though for many other families that's an immense hardship.

Disclaimer #2: The above recital of some of the more difficult sides of parenthood doesn't mean that it's not worth it -- for many people (including us) it's the single most wonderful thing that happens in their lives. It's just that nobody in their right minds would consider getting a few weeks of unpaid leave from work to be a reward for parenthood. There are rewards of parenthood, but getting a sweet deal from the Family and Medical Leave Act ain't one of them.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:53 pm

kurt_w wrote:But if bdog is seriously unhappy at the prospect of not being allowed to take 12 weeks off work with no pay in exchange for spending untold hours in pediatricians' waiting rooms, changing endless numbers of diapers, not getting more than a couple of hours of undisturbed sleep in any 24-hour period, and cutting back on all other household expenses to pay for all the sudden new costs of raising a child ...

Dude...not my problem. It's yours. You didn't know it would be hard? NMP.

I didn't say the leave was paid. All I said was single (and by that I meant childless) people don't even have the option of taking similar time off to do as they see fit.

And yeah, I get it - we as a society have decided it's a good thing to do for parents. Read the original post - all I was saying is we already protect the "family creators".

Nice rant though.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby kurt_w » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:24 pm

bdog wrote:All I said was single (and by that I meant childless) people don't even have the option of taking similar time off to do as they see fit.


Bull. Everyone has exactly the same option of taking time off "to do as they see fit". It's called quit your job.

New parents do have the option of temporarily leaving their job to care for a new child (born, adopted, or fostered). Everyone has the similar option of taking a few weeks of unpaid time off to care for a seriously ill parent. Neither of those should be seen as some kind of delectable treat that you're being denied.

:roll:
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:14 pm

You're full of it Kurt. You'd scream bloody murder if it was taken away. I can't take advantage of it.

This is the kind of bullshit childless workers have to deal with it.

As if it's MY fault you chose to have children and have a shitty life.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby rabble » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:56 pm

bdog wrote:You're full of it Kurt. You'd scream bloody murder if it was taken away. I can't take advantage of it.

Sure you can. Have a kid and then take care of it.

These things are created to give people a chance to deal with major upheavals in their lives, not to vacation. You really are acting as though the recipients are having the time of their lives.

It's not our fault you're fulla shit.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:13 pm

rabble wrote:Sure you can. Have a kid and then take care of it.

Priceless. "Let them eat cake"

rabble wrote:These things are created to give people a chance to deal with major upheavals in their lives, not to vacation. You really are acting as though the recipients are having the time of their lives.

I don't really give a shit if they're on vacation or flagellating themselves. Either way, it's not my problem. It was their choice.

It's a benefit. Childless people can't take advantage of it.
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Re: Blessing in Disguise?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:16 pm

It's a benefit. Childless people don't need.


Fixt.
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