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Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:44 pm

Average Joe wrote:No. You basically said renaming the Overture Center would solve the problem of the Overture Center. I said that was silly. You said no it wasn't and offered up a lot of juvenile reasons why not. I shot every one of those reasons down. Now you're hyperventilating. Sorry to harsh your buzz, dude.

Joe you do realize all this is recorded right? Let's go to the tape:

bdog wrote:It also needs a new image, which a re-naming would certainly help. "Overture Center" is synonymous with a lot of bad things right now.


Average Joe wrote:And renaming is just silly.


NICELY "SHOT DOWN" ha ha ha ha

bdog wrote:Why is renaming silly?

A major criticism of OC is that it was built for the fat cats. The name reinforces that.


Average Joe wrote:The renaming idea is silly because anyone with an attention span greater than your average stoner will recall that the place they used to call The Overture Center is The Overture Center.


And I'm telling you they will indeed forget it - all the team mascot changes being a good example. Mascots are much more deeply ingrained than building names and they got over it.

Now, care to respond to that or are you going to froth at the mouth some more?
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby Average Joe » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:46 pm

bdog wrote:it's my emotional side that shows most on the forum.




Furthermore, by your own admission you stated that your thought process on this matter is being controlled by your emotional thinking rather than your rational thinking.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:51 pm

I said a little bit of both. I said what you see here is more emotional.

Really, it's still called the Coliseum. Look it up. Makes your original comment on it look pretty damn stupid. (That was emotional).
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:53 pm

Damn it Joe, we were having a good debate.

Now it's down the shit-hole just like every other discussion on here.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby Average Joe » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:58 pm

bdog wrote:

Now, care to respond to that or are you going to froth at the mouth some more?


If you consider my snickering at your deluded little stoner ideas "frothing" then here is some more: The Overture Center is not going to change it's name. The Overture Center is not going to go away. The city of Madison will be making a costly mistake if they think they can pawn it off and declare it a "private" enterprise.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:01 pm

Average Joe wrote:
bdog wrote:

Now, care to respond to that or are you going to froth at the mouth some more?


If you consider my snickering at your deluded little stoner ideas "frothing" then here is some more: The Overture Center is not going to change it's name. The Overture Center is not going to go away. The city of Madison will be making a costly mistake if they think they can pawn it off and declare it a "private" enterprise.

Damn. We'll see what the Hochunk have to say about that! HMPFF!
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:05 pm

Double damn!. I feel like Tom Cruise after he got Col. Jessup to admit he ordered the code red!

Love to know who Joe is in real life - he (or she?) is taking this very personally!
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby Average Joe » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:13 pm

Dude, it's unfortunate that my rational system has gotten under your emotional system's skin, but I am not taking this personally. I'm just speaking the rational truth.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:18 pm

"deluded little stoner ideas" - yeah, that's real rational.

You've got skin in the game, IMHO.

Has your rational system confirmed that the Coliseum is in fact, still named the Coliseum?
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby Bad Gradger » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:39 pm

Peanutbutter wrote:Only a white person would enjoy a celebration of Mary Lou William's work? A person of color would not be entertained at the MAMA's award show? Tech N9ne and Big Scoob are stuff white people like?

I'm not saying that you personally may care to go to any of those. I am saying that Overture offers more diversity than you give them credit for.

This is my new favorite reply of all time on this forum. Not only does it point out how you didn't bother to click the link I posted to a very famous blog, but it's exactly the kind of thing that said blog is designed to lampoon. Congratulations.

Bdog and Joe, can you stop this dumb semantic pissing match please? Thanks.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby snoqueen » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:26 am

I'm skipping over the pissing match part of this topic, but I have a money question.

First, add up all the dollars spent in this town on entertainment that could happen in the Overture center (theater, music that does not happen in a bar, whatever else).

Now, take out the ticket dollars spent at the Kohl Center and the Coliseum. Those places aren't going away. You might take out the Bartell ticket dollars too, since it's got a place of its own and hopefully isn't going away either. Maybe do the same for Broom Street.

Let's call the remainder "overall ticket total" for purposes of this discussion. I'm leaving out "music that happens in a bar" because when people go out to hear a band, maybe dance, and drink, they are looking for something totally unrelated to the Overture experience.

Now add up the Overture overhead. That number has to be available someplace, or the City Council's got nothing to go on when they discuss what to do next. Include debt service, maintenance, employees (at current rate of pay), and everything else.

Is "overall ticket total" larger than or smaller than Overture's overhead?

If it's larger, theoretically Overture can pay its own way.

If it's smaller, it can't.

You can mess around with the numbers at this point -- take out Overture's debt service and hope the debt magically vanishes, or let the city provide such-and-such a subsidy. See how things come out under various scenarios.

I haven't seen it, but somebody should be doing these calculations before the city council decides anything. With little to go on but instinct here, I think the results of this scratch-paper exercise would be discouraging.

Linda Baldwin apparently thinks there is elasticity in Madison's overall ticket total. Trying to be fair, I think that's the point of her article: people ought to spend more on entertainment at Overture. Such elasticity has yet to be demonstrated. With our economic downturn, there's little new income available to individuals and families to be allocated to entertainment. Without new income, an expanded entertainment expenditure has to come from some other part of the person's budget. The greatest list of shows in the world, and the greatest promotion can't make people squeeze more ticket money out of their budgets if they don't have it to begin with.

I don't see more ticket money appearing, not anytime soon. If we can't face up to that fact, we aren't going to "solve" anything.

This is the trouble with having wealthy people managing Overture in a top-down manner. They can't grasp the forces affecting the budget decisions of people in other financial circumstances. (Overture, obviously, isn't the only place we see this happening.)

No clever rearrangement of Overture's management system even begins to address this fundamental condition. It's a deck-chair-rearrangement on your typical Titanic, and we'll have to re-do the whole thing in two to five years.


An aside: Cutting Overture up means doing what's already been done with the Madison art center. It's a separate entity housed in the Overture building and, as far as I know, it's been separate from the start. People advocating cutting Overture up mean making it into several other separate (more manageable?) entities like the art center. I don't know if it would help or not. I still think finding another use for part of the building needs to be considered, though the "not until I'm out of office" thing is totally understandable.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby bdog » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:05 am

snoqueen wrote:I don't see more ticket money appearing, not anytime soon. If we can't face up to that fact, we aren't going to "solve" anything.

I think Linda Baldwin and the rest of the OC big wigs have already realized this - the ticket money is not there and it isn't going to be there with the current programming.

They are apparently unwilling to change the programming. The god-awful email from the VP to Nick Berigan tells me they don't care about public input. Couldn't she have asked him "What do you want to see?" vs. "I'll tell you how we decide what you will see"?

But, this is typical behavior from OC. They have never been interested in public buy-in. Now they are realizing that without it they are doomed. OC needs people to buy in to it on emotional grounds - they can't stand on any rational footing.

LB's ham-handed opinion piece was an attempt at that. But it is extremely naive. You don't get buyin with a top down matriarchal approach like that. You need to build it from the grass roots.

How do you do that? First off, start listening to people and start actively soliciting the people for advice. You don't have to take their advice! Just the act of asking for it will give Madisonians a greater sense of ownership.

If they go this route they really need to hire an expert to help them. They are clueless right now.

And, uh, change the name.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby Nick Berigan » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:34 am

Actually more than that she didn't ask me what I wanted to see, I was bothered by the fact that she couldn't just describe the process of determining the acts. I still have this question. This should be able to be generally described in not too many words.

Can anyone tell me how acts are chosen?
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby rabble » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:15 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Average Joe wrote:I've yet to meet anyone who has referred to the Coliseum as The Alliant Energy Center.

So much the better.

I have. I remember because my wife spits on the ground every time someone calls it that. And whether either of you like it or not, and I don't, everyone we know who's under 30 calls it the Alliant Center. For some reason they leave out the Energy part.

But that's trivial and I'll cede the point to Joe: after much consideration and soul searching I have come to the conclusion that a name change for Overture would have no effect on anything and is completely silly. Anyone who suggests such a thing has no clue whatsover; it should not be attempted nor discussed.
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Re: Linda Baldwin fires desperate salvo for OC

Postby jjoyce » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:53 am

This is a common sense issue with the Overture Center:

On Friday, I was surprised to find that plenty of excellent seats were available for the Sunday matinee of Drumline Live. Then I realized that its 2 pm start time put it up directly against Packers football. I understand that other issues might have made moving the start time impossible, but here you've got a very accessible show that might actually appeal to people who enjoy watching football on the weekend, but you're not even giving it a chance.

I was also pleased to see that Overture was offering 25% off tickets as part of a "Black Friday" deal. I splurged a little, but as far as I'm concerned, this sale made the purchase of a couple of spectacular seats (orchestra circle) actually affordable. I will pay $30, but not $40 to sit in those seats.

But here's the deal: Those seats are amazing! And seeing the show from there will get us back ... and probably not even in those seats. My point is that if a lot of 1 or 2-times a year Overture people got the option of upgrading for cheap every once in a while, you'd start a habit. The symphony is fine and we go once a year for that, but I'd just as soon take my kid to something that doesn't just excite him, but inspires his own music, which is exactly what Drumline did (nothing gets a trombone player fired up to practice like seeing some guys blow the roof off the place).
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