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Aargh! Why the F&%$#@K are they stopping?

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here

Postby frozenCow » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:08 am

Ducatista wrote:On a related note, to all you bikers who self-righteously yell at cars trying to pull out of the Machinery Row parking lot: if you're headed west on the bike path, YOU have a yield sign. So slow down and shut the fuck up. That intersection is a smelly mess, no need to add your stinky sanctimony to the pile. I'm always on foot at that intersection, not in a car, and you still bug the crap out of me.


I know what you mean about that Machinery Row parking lot exit.

One day last year I was trying to leave that parking lot in my car during rush hour. You can only turn right into Willy St, but you have to watch for traffic on your left coming from 3 different streets: John Nolen Dr, Wilson St, and Blair St.

So I head for the exit slowly. I get about one and a half car lengths from the sidewalk. I stop and look to my left, nobody on the sidewalk but traffic in the street is busy. I look right, nobody on the sidewalk.

So I slowly inch my way to the sidewalk looking left to assess the sidewalk and street traffic. All clear for both. I see something out of the corner of my eye on the right. I stop and look right, and I see a bike coming up the sidewalk. Then I heard an unexpected thump on the back of my car.

I put the car in park, get out and see a runner on my left, heading down the path towards John Nolen Dr, yelling at me. He must have come up from my right, got pissed that I was temporarily blocking the sidewalk, and then ran behind my car and banged it with his hand. Of course he had to yell obscenities at me too.

Now what in the hell was that? It wasn't like I raced to the exit without even attempting to be careful. I'm a runner and I've been biking in Madison since before we even had bike paths. However, when I'm running or biking, I do realize that cars may not always see me or be expecting to see me. I usually avoid cars when I can, and in situations like that I assume the driver is too busy monitoring non-stopping vehicle traffic to worry about blocking the path for somebody jogging for exercise.

As for the Southwest bike path, I've had people stop cars for me at Odana and Glenway when I'm biking. I never assume they will stop, and I've probably taken them up on the favor more than I've passed them on. But I can see your point about the safety issue, chance. In the future I will wave them on.
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Postby shelly » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:27 am

On a related note, I have a question.

I come down the bike path from the Golf Course and make a left turn onto the bike path to go to campus. Often I am turning at the same time as a biker crossing Glenway. I always assume that they have the right of way since they are going straight and I am turning so I always yield. But then again, they have a stop sign and I don't, so presumably they should make sure the road AND the bike path are clear before they proceed. Who has the right of way?
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Stopping for the White Stripes

Postby Thickovet » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:45 pm

I routinely skate down that path and sometimes the cars stop but usually they don't. How am I different from a pedestrian in a crosswalk marked with broad, angled white stripes? Seems to me that the cars are SUPPOSED to stop at which point it is my option to risk my life on the guy in the other lane stopping too or courteously thank the one law abiding motor vehicle operator while waving her on.

Monday evening took the cake tho: Biker on a phone, meandering on to the right of way directly in front of an oncoming biker. I took the opportunity to bark "Hang up & Bike". No reaction. No clue. No blood. No foul.
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Postby square » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:02 am

my related rant:
so as a biker, i take risks and precautions - keeping in mind i would like to bike for the next 60 years or however i have on this planet. but when i actually follow the rules of the road, i don't need to get into a verbal confrontation about it.

i use the wisconsin & gorham/johnson intersection all the time. when i'm going west from the capitol to gorham (before construction, now it's all fucked up) i would be in the right 'left turn/straight' lane because then i can easily get to the bike lane on gorham and cause as little trouble for everyone as possible. usually you have to wait for the cars going south on wisconsin to pass before you can turn, so everyone has to wait, except for the people going straight. but if someone is waiting to turn left, they, too, have to wait. about a month ago i was waiting to turn left into the bike lane from the right lane (because it is painted on the road that this is legal) and i got cussed out from some driver who thought i was ruining his day. of course i flipped him off and cussed him out back - i had every right.

if i was a car - he would MAYBE have honked, but he was still in the wrong. just makes me wonder why i follow any of the rules of the road if when i do, i just get cussed out by some bald-headed camry-driving aggro-phile.
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Postby mcs_madison » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:39 pm

We stop because every other biker and pedestrian in this town has us brainwashed. You don't want us to stop but others get totally pissed off, if we don't.

I've actually been spit on, by a biker, because he didn;t want to stop at HIS stop sign and I made him stop by following the rules of the road.

Unless you can get all the cyclists in the area to be of one mind...I'm going to stop when it seems appropriate. It's really hard to get cyclist bits out of the grill of my car and State Farm REALLY hates those kinda claims...
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Postby blunt » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:04 pm

I hear you.
But I, too, have been annoyed many times by overly careful drivers.
Don't stop!
Traffic is a steel stream that free-range organic fleshbuckets must carefully cross or die.
If a wheelchair or elderliness is apparent---it's a different story.
But. I understand the dilemma:
Insurance claims wreck everything.
From hot coffee in the lap to pants lost at the cleaners, lawsuits ruin our ability to survive in the wild.
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ZEBRA Lines mean "STOP"

Postby Thickovet » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:18 am

After seeing the legs this topic has, I finally did what I should have done long ago:


ASK THE GUY WHO WILL GIVE YOU THE TICKET


So I asked an Officer of the Law, one of Madison's Finest. I said "Madison's Finest, when I am on the bike path and it crosses streets, there is paint on the road...angled, white stripes with thick white borders perpendicular to the roadway, who is supposed to stop and yield at this juncture?"

Madison's Finest responded that those stripes are known in the cop biz as Zebra Stripes and if someone is "exhibiting the intent" to cross on said stripes, vehicles on the roadway are required to stop. The fine is in excess of $100 for failing to yield the right of way to a pedestrian, a term which in this case includes bikers, inline skaters and dog walkers.

So there you have it, dispute at will...but the bottom line is you the operator of a motor vehicle are REQUIRED to stop at those white lines. Ignore at your peril. The excuse list is long but ineffective, especially if you have a biker/skater/dog walker enmeshed in your grill.
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Re: ZEBRA Lines mean "STOP"

Postby auntgoodness » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:29 am

Sorry, but this...

Thickovet wrote:Madison's Finest responded that those stripes are known in the cop biz as Zebra Stripes and if someone is "exhibiting the intent" to cross on said stripes, vehicles on the roadway are required to stop.


does not automatically equal this:

Thickovet wrote:So there you have it, dispute at will...but the bottom line is you the operator of a motor vehicle are REQUIRED to stop at those white lines.


I am certainly not "exhibiting intent" to cross when I STOP at the damn STOP sign on the bike path!

If we (bikes and peds) are required to stop but motorists are supposed to assume we won't stop, then WTF? I'm starting to think it's not the motorists or the peds and bicyclists who are the problem, but that maybe these are very poorly designed crosswalks.
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Postby jjoyce » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:47 am

Ducatista wrote:That intersection is a smelly mess, no need to add your stinky sanctimony to the pile.


It seems that the only thing preventing that intersection and many others from slipping into Third World-style anarchy is when people stop assuming they always have the right of way (that includes peds and bikers) and show a little mutual respect.

I'm not sure anyone creeping into the crosswalk or whatever deserves to be yelled at, curses or no, but it's happened to me and near me tons of times.

This anti-biker/anti-car thing is insane, particularly because it only fuels increased agitation on either side which isn't going to make anything better.
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Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:00 pm

jjoyce wrote:This anti-biker/anti-car thing is insane, particularly because it only fuels increased agitation on either side which isn't going to make anything better.

Which one's got stars on thars?
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Postby Bwis53 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:31 am

It happened again this morning. I was at S. Webster and E. Main, SE Corner headed toward Argus. I was about two feet back from the curb and a bus stopped. Traffic was still flowing. The car, in the center lane stopped. I still had no idea, if the third lane of traffic was going to stop. When I realized that I might be causing more harm than good, by waiting, I stepped off the curb cautiously, and crossed over. I know the feel of a car bumper on my knees.
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THIS does not equal THAT

Postby Thickovet » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:11 pm

Read this, then go to the location in question. Yep, that's a stop sign. The order is this: Street. Gutter/Curb. Terrace. OR Street. Apron/Ramp. Sidewalk.
Then a stop sign.

So, if you or I were to be coming from the bike path end of things, the first thing you encounter is a stop sign. Stop. Proceed across the sidewalk to the apron or ramp...this is where you "exhibit the intent to cross". Cars? They are required by Wisconsin State Law to see you there and stop, allowing you to cross in the 'zebra stripes'.

There really isn't room for discussion. The reason it doesn't work is that cars don't stop. The MPD ran a sting last week... Check the Wisconsin State Urinal, they had pictures of your typical motorist nearly running over the pedestrian/victim before receiving the $165 Failure to Yield to Pedestrian in the Crosswalk citation.

I'll settle for obscene gesturing and yelling at the errant motorists.
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Re: THIS does not equal THAT

Postby Maxine » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:22 pm

Thickovet wrote:this is where you "exhibit the intent to cross".


When I encounter some tree-hugging "pedestrian" who is "exhibiting the intent to cross", I like gunning the gas in my Buick Regal to "exhibit the intent to hit". That usually makes the little eco-hippy do at least one quick little prayer and a fancy jump for Jesus.
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Re: THIS does not equal THAT

Postby fennel » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:08 pm

Maxine wrote:When I encounter some tree-hugging "pedestrian" who is "exhibiting the intent to cross", I like gunning the gas in my Buick Regal to "exhibit the intent to hit". That usually makes the little eco-hippy do at least one quick little prayer and a fancy jump for Jesus.


I'm surprised you never received a 180 grain thank-you-gram from the NRA. Bikers have pretty good reflexes, after all. Thank your stars that little eco hippy didn't have an angry father.
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Re: ZEBRA Lines mean "STOP"

Postby snoqueen » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:17 am

auntgoodness wrote:... I'm starting to think it's not the motorists or the peds and bicyclists who are the problem, but that maybe these are very poorly designed crosswalks.


Yep, and a very poorly written law about how people are supposed to act in/around them.

I'm starting to think we would be better off crossing anywhere BUT the zebra lanes.
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