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What Policies?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: What Policies?

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:22 am

rabble wrote:
fisticuffs wrote: Obama's actual policies all died at the hands of Republican filibuster.

I thought that was the main plan. Don't let him pass anything, then say he failed because he didn't do anything.

In the end it boils down to "There's the choir. Let's preach at it."

Altho not directly related to economic policy, Obama's Preventive Detention law, which nullifies due process, was passed with no problem with the Republicans. He will be remembered as one of the chief architects of the police state.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby Comrade » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07 pm

wack wack wrote:
Meade wrote:Keep protesting, guys.

We'll let you know when it doth get to be too much.


Got nothin', huh?


Well the answers to your question are very simple and they have been backed up to a great extent despite your claims. However, since you lack an understanding of economics, I am not surprised that you have failed to grasp the obvious.

Failed policy #1 was the initial stimulus of aprox 750 billion.

Failed policy #2 was Obamacare

Failed policy #3 was Dodd Frank Financial reform.

Failed policy #4 failure to pass permenant tax rates for companies and individuals.

All of these (except #4) were passed into law and fly in the face of Fisticuffs claims that his policies were thwarted by a Republican filibuster.

Now the explanations of HOW and WHY these policies were failures;

The stimulus did now meet up to the stated objectives of the administration. Joe Biden claimed it would lower unemployment to below 8%. This did not happen. During a fund raiser in Florida in 2010, Obama claimed that "shovel ready did not turn out to be as ready as we thought" This is an admission of a failure to meet objectives.

Obamacare is a huge failure even though it is yet to be fully implemented. Because of this, no company can figure out what their cost of labor is really going to be. That is a huge unknown to them now, but more on this later.

Dodd Frank is a failure. Congress largely abdicated their responsiblility to debate and pass laws on their merits here. There are some 275 major policy regulations regarding banks and financial institutions that are to be designated by an official who is yet to be named. A result of this is that banks are hoarding money as they do not know what their capitalization requirements are going to be--more on this later too.

Now to summarize, Companies do not know what their cost of labor is going to be because of Obamacare. They do not know what their cost of capital is going to be because of Dodd-Frank, and finally they don't know what their taxes are going to be. With those many unknowns, nobody can do a cost benefit analysis to determine whether or not it pays to engage in any type of expansion or growth. Therefore, everyone is sitting on their hands and doing nothing. They are NOT hiring or making any comittments.

ALL of this has kept the economy from recovering. A direct result of that is huge deficit spending on welfare and unemployment as people REALLY need support. The huge deficits create a real need for tax increases. However, tax increases are the exact wrong thing to do to a weak economy. We are in a bad position now that is getting worse. Essentially, these policies have put us on the path to emulate what has happened in Greece!

One could go even further if one wanted to talk about things that were not done, but should have been. If Obama had provided leadership to the Senate, they might have actually passed a budget. That could have helped if done properly as it would have given some certainty to where taxes might have to go. He could have kept oil prices from going as high as they did earlier this year by simply allowing the keystone pipeline and the utilization of natural gas that we already have. We have a large enought supply to power our diesel trucks and that alone would get us off of imported oil. Supply of oil would therefore have been up and gas prices would have fallen. That could have avoided a big hit the economy took in the first quarter.

There is yet another catastrophe in the making right now that he is failing to act on to minimize the damage to the economy. Corn prices are going through the roof due to this drought. We need corn to make ethanol which is mandated. He should be taking steps to allow for substituions right now, but it is not happening.

We could also talk about how increasing the money supply like we have will be inflationary down the road and the damage it will do, but I don't expect that to be understood here.

This is NOT a partisan rant. Steve Wynn is a Democrat who supported Obama in 2008 and he as made the exact same claims. In fact, I am largely paraphrasing him with this post.

There!! We do not have nothing and did provide you with specific concete examples of a nonpartisan nature to answer your quesion and refute the nonsense of the blind partisans.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:30 pm

All of these (except #4) were passed into law and fly in the face of Fisticuffs claims that his policies were thwarted by a Republican filibuster.

There are some 275 major policy regulations regarding banks and financial institutions that are to be designated by an official who is yet to be named.

Why hasn't that person been named?
A result of this is that banks are hoarding money as they do not know what their capitalization requirements are going to be--more on this later too.

The law is on the books. They know. They were hoarding before, and they'll hoard after. We do not need to give in to all of their demands to get them to start spending. The problem is they are using the capitol for Wall St. gambling instead of Main St. lending. This is because Republicans fought to remove the very important dividers between investment banks and savings and loan banks.

Obamacare is a huge failure even though it is yet to be fully implemented.


This is a laugher. It's not even in place yet you know it's a failure?
Because of this, no company can figure out what their cost of labor is really going to be. That is a huge unknown to them now, but more on this later.

Lie. It's been on the books for close to 3 years now. They know. What they don't know is how many more times the Republicans will try to repeal this law. Repeal doesn't lower their costs. The ACA does by every non-partisan study.

The stimulus did now meet up to the stated objectives of the administration. Joe Biden claimed it would lower unemployment to below 8%.


the stimulus was half tax cuts, and pulled us out of the economic free-fall brought on by the Republicans policies. Did it measure up to Joe's rhetoric? Nope. That doesn't mean it was a failure. We were losing 800,000 jobs a month when Obama took over Bush's economy, we've added jobs for something like 28 straight even though the Republicans have failed to vote on any of the Presidents jobs bills.

Therefore, everyone is sitting on their hands and doing nothing. They are NOT hiring or making any comittments.


They are hiring, just not fast enough. Here's the biggest huge lie that seems to have seeped it's way deep into your head... companies hire because of demand. Not because of how much profit they get to keep. The tax rate has nothing to do with hiring, if it did they would be hiring like crazy because, and this is an important one, it's never been lower for them. It's like their a bully and they are punching you, Comrade, in the face and they keep telling you "just give me a little more and I'll stop. Then you give more, and they demand more, and you give more, and they demand more.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Failed policy #1 was the initial stimulus of aprox 750 billion.

Failed policy #2 was Obamacare

Failed policy #3 was Dodd Frank Financial reform.

Failed policy #4 failure to pass permenant tax rates for companies and individuals.


I'd also add that #1 needed to be bigger and less of it tax cuts. #2 and #3 are anything but failures. #3 should have been way stronger. and #4 was supposed to sunset. Republicans won't pass the part we all agree on and are holding the middle class, and the countries credit rating hostage for political gain.

#1-#3 were all passed in 2009 when Republicans didn't have enough seats to block literally everything. Although they sure as hell tried.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby Comrade » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:41 pm

Fisti, you don't have to believe me. Just go and google Steve Wynn and his comments.

Your answers were simply not factual, but I will no longer waste time on blind partisans like yourself.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:47 pm

Your answers were simply not factual, but I will no longer waste time on blind partisans like yourself.


You posted nothing but opinion and speculation.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby DCB » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:17 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
Failed policy #3 was Dodd Frank Financial reform.

#2 and #3 are anything but failures. #3 should have been way stronger.

Policy 3 is already a success.
Capital One Financial Corp. (COF) will pay a total of $210 million to settle charges of deceptive marketing of credit card “add-on” products such as payment protection and credit monitoring.

It was the first public enforcement case brought by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, established by the Dodd- Frank Act to increase oversight of consumer financial products.

That is, if you consider regulation of banks a good thing. If you're a Republican, then you probably think ripping off customers is just business as usual.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby acereraser » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:51 pm

Comrade wrote:This is NOT a partisan rant. Steve Wynn is a Democrat who supported Obama in 2008 and he as made the exact same claims. In fact, I am largely paraphrasing him with this post.

There!! We do not have nothing and did provide you with specific concete examples of a nonpartisan nature to answer your quesion and refute the nonsense of the blind partisans.


You mean casino mogul Steve Wynn, who is a close, personal friend of Karl Rove?

And Rove, who attended Wynn's gala wedding last year in Vegas, recently got something of a personal bonus out of the relationship. After Wynn attended the veteran operative's wedding last month in Austin — an intimate and until-now unreported affair also attended by former President George W. Bush — Rove and his new wife Karen Johnson flew to Naples, Italy, aboard Wynn's Boeing 737 — a nearly 11-hour, 6,000-mile trip that could cost tens of thousands of dollars from a charter jet carrier. Wynn joined Rove in Italy.


I guess I really don't think flamboyant billionaires think about politics (who gets what) the same way as anyone who would use this forum. I'm guessing this has more to do with his friendship with Rove than difficulties in reforming health insurance. Maybe it's hookers in Macau.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby Comrade » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:27 pm

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exch ... 51699.html

What I said but expressed in a slightly different manner.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby acereraser » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:20 pm

Comrade wrote:http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/wake-washington-economy-needs-151951699.html

What I said but expressed in a slightly different manner.


Thanks for the link, but my take on the article was more, well, like the headline of the article, "Wake Up, Washington". It did say that poor economic performance will not be helpful to Obama's re-election, but the article did not place blame solely on Obama's policies.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 pm

What policies, indeed?

With an opposition like this, we'll never know how well Obama's policies could work:

http://www.channel3000.com/news/politic ... index.html

Today the following bill got shot down by the Senate R's, minus four:

The Bring Jobs Home Act would provide a 20% tax break for the costs of moving jobs back to the United States and would rescind business expense deductions available to companies that are associated with the cost of moving operations overseas.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, had warned Democrats before the vote that his party would want to amend the bill -- possibly with hot-button issues like repealing the health care reform law or extending the Bush-era tax cuts for all income levels.


A handout to businesses increasing the number of jobs they provide within the US got turned down flat. You tell me why, or I'll just go on thinking the R's are trying to keep employment down until after the election, and don't really give a shit about getting Americans working once again.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Obama's Preventive Detention law, which nullifies due process, was passed with no problem with the Republicans.

If you're talking about the national defense authorization act of 2012, wasn't it passed by both houses of congress, republican led house and democrat led senate, before it was signed into law by barack?

He will be remembered as one of the chief architects of the police state.


I disagree. Obama will be remembered as pulling off the greatest conjob on america ever known. He also may be remembered as being the start of the rapid downward slide of this formerly great nation into one of, say an incompetent haiti.
OK, let's just simplify that---"We are all chicagoans now".
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Re: What Policies?

Postby rabble » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:21 pm

The trophy for starting our rapid downslide will fall to Dubby, narrowly, for signing on to the first of the bailout moneyshovelings.

The trophy for beginning the slow downslide I think should go to Reagan. Might make a case for Nixon, I suppose. But we've been going downhill for a while. All GW did was put rocket on the handbasket.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:41 pm

Of course this might also have something to do with it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z2

Neither party has done well at dealing with the banking system, though we see the Republicans in particular don't even intend to try.
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Re: What Policies?

Postby Comrade » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:47 am

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exch ... 00284.html

Yet another article to document how Dodd Frank has been a failure. I could litterally post articles all day long on all four of the failures of Obama regarding economics that I outlined. There are reams and reams of this stuff out there from all kinds of sources.

You don't have to take my word for it. I rather enjoy the idea of the blind partisans remaining in denial. That will work out for them just like the recall did.
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