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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:35 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Shrug all you want, but can you show me a case where someone was arrested for felony possession of a firearm if all they have on their record is a citation or misdemeanor conviction for mere possession of pot? Otherwise all you have is paranoia.


Henry, the CCW application specifically asks if you "use" marijuana. If you check yes, you're denied. If you check no and you do, you're lying. I'll have to agree with Penguin on this one. He said nothing about misdemeanors or convictions. It's a very clear cut question they ask.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:42 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Shrug all you want, but can you show me a case where someone was arrested for felony possession of a firearm if all they have on their record is a citation or misdemeanor conviction for mere possession of pot?


Like I said before, this strawman you're building has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I never said that convictions in the past automatically results in it being illegal to possess/purchase a firearm, so I don't understand why you continue to try and put those words into my mouth.

Otherwise all you have is paranoia.


I provide actual quotes from an Ass't Director of the ATF, from several different media sources, and your only response is to label me as mentally ill?!

*sigh*

If using an illegal substance has no bearing at all in regards to possessing/purchasing a firearm, then why do you think they ask on the application if you use any unlawful substances?


(PS to Stebben: Thank you. Maybe he'll listen to you. Tho, it should be cleared up that it isn't just the CCW application they ask that on, but also the application to purchase a firearm)
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:45 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Shrug all you want, but can you show me a case where someone was arrested for felony possession of a firearm if all they have on their record is a citation or misdemeanor conviction for mere possession of pot? Otherwise all you have is paranoia.

Actually, based on P's references (Washington TImes? Fox News?) you don't even need a citation - just evidence that you have used pot.
Fail a urine test with a gun in your house - Felony!

I'll believe it when I see it.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:20 pm

penquin wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Shrug all you want, but can you show me a case where someone was arrested for felony possession of a firearm if all they have on their record is a citation or misdemeanor conviction for mere possession of pot?


Like I said before, this strawman you're building has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

You said I was breaking the law because I admitted to smoking pot and I own a firearm. Yet even if individuals are convicted of non-felony pot possession and they own a gun, they are not arrested. That is hardly a straw man. Don't use a term which you don't understand.

Drama queens shrug on message boards.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:05 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You said I was breaking the law because I admitted to smoking pot and I own a firearm.


Not just me, rather I was quoting an letter from the Assistant Director of the ATF who says it is against the law for someone who smokes marijuana to possess or purchase a firearm.

Yet even if individuals are convicted of non-felony pot possession and they own a gun, they are not arrested.


People are rarely ticketed for driving 74mph in a 65 zone. Is it legal to drive 74mph in a 65 zone?

DCB wrote:I'll believe it when I see it.


Some states, like Louisiana, can require someone to pee in a cup and have their guns seized if they come up dirty. Not sure how often charges are filed, tho.

(While reading that link, I saw this too: It is illegal for any person who is a national of a country with whom the United States is at war to own, possess, have custody, or use any firearm. I wonder how the "War on Terror" fits into that?)
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:26 pm

What nation as we at war with, as Terror is not a country?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Detritus » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:What nation as we at war with, as Terror is not a country?

Terror is a country, and Profit is its capital.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:01 pm

Ooh, nice.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:41 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Despite the case you cited from 1981 (which does not set precedent throughout the U.S.), do you really believe that the police won't respond to violent crimes?


There are a number of other similar cases in other districts around the country. The fact that not one of them has been overturned by the USSC means that this is indeed the standing legal situation.

Police certainly do respond to violent crimes. Most of the time. Usually, after the fact. But there is no legal obligation for them to stop a bad guy from doing bad things to other people.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:54 pm

DCB wrote:
80-90 % of Americans support background checks on guns sales. That's probably a pretty good definition of reasonable.

I believe any "poll" that cites 90% on any political question is suspect. It would be a stretch to get 90% of Americans to agree that sun rises in the east. Here's an interesting article. And it's a mistake to confuse popularity with reasonableness.

DCB wrote:Please refrain from distorting or misrepresenting my views. It makes you appear even more of a dick.

So you're opposed to the "assault weapons" ban? Sorry, I didn't realize. I thought you were in favor. My mistake.

DCB wrote:I am emotionally indifferent to the mass slaughter in Newtown.

So you call me out for misrepresenting your views, but do the same? You're worse than anything you want to call me.

Acknowledging that a given proposal would have been extremely unlikely to have saved any lives in a given event is not the same as being emotionally indifferent to a human tragedy. But it's another ad hominem, anyway, and a pointless distraction from the debate.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:16 pm

BSH wrote: The fact that not one of them has been overturned by the USSC means that this is indeed the standing legal situation.

No, it means the case cited above applies to the District of Columbia (it was decided by their appellate court, which is similar to a state's supreme court). It is only precedent in Washington, D.C. and no place else.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:36 pm

BSH wrote:
DCB wrote:
80-90 % of Americans support background checks on guns sales. That's probably a pretty good definition of reasonable.

I believe any "poll" that cites 90% on any political question is suspect.

What's it like to live in a world where "reasonable" means "violent crazy people should be able to own whatever guns they want, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of people think" ?

So you're opposed to the "assault weapons" ban?


No, I support the AW ban. But not because they "look scary", as you put it. Because they make it easy for crazy and violent people to commit mass murder. Something that most reasonable people find abhorrent.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:09 pm

DCB wrote:No, I support the AW ban. But not because they "look scary", as you put it. Because they make it easy for crazy and violent people to commit mass murder. Something that most reasonable people find abhorrent.


I suppose that you support a ban on pressure cookers for the same reason. Or in this case is it because they look scary?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
DCB wrote:No, I support the AW ban. But not because they "look scary", as you put it. Because they make it easy for crazy and violent people to commit mass murder. Something that most reasonable people find abhorrent.


I suppose that you support a ban on pressure cookers for the same reason. Or in this case is it because they look scary?


Can you cook dinner with your assault weapon?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:59 pm

wack wack wrote:Can you cook dinner with your assault weapon?


Sure, if it's in a holster on your side which I guarantee Dman is doing. I wonder if he made a little apron for his guns. Wouldn't want to get 'em dirty while he's whipping up din din.
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