MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Wednesday, April 16, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 47.0° F  Mostly Cloudy and Windy
Collapse Photo Bar

Don't get hurt... You might get tagged

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:58 pm

pulsewidth modulation wrote:
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:If anyone knows of a better post office anywhere in the world, I'd like to hear about it

UPS

Nice try, but UPS is a package delivery service, not a post office. Virtually every country in the world has a post office, so don't act like I'm playing semantics - we all know what a post office is. As for your "no monopolies" claim - as usual, it's total bullshit. USPS most definitely has a monopoly on first class mail service, outgoing international mail and the legal use of mail boxes. They've also got a monopoly on stamp production, which is a very lucrative business, believe you me.

Regardless, comparatively, USPS kicks UPS's ass.
I've had more problems with UPS than I can count and they're generally more major and difficult to fix than any I've encountered through USPS (who, I remind you, have made exactly ONE mistake - a package was partially crushed - in the 7+ years I've been using them for my business. Anyone who works with UPS knows they fuck up much more often than that.)
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:13 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
anton wrote:Picture the Post Office ... managing your health care.

Sounds good to me.
Seriously, I pack and ship for a living and I've yet to understand any of the standard complaints levied against the post office.


Maybe that's because Fed Ex ships all USPS high priority and overnight mail...
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby Mike S. » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:17 pm

As for Verichip, the only useful phrase that seems to come to mind is "holy war". Maybe the Iraqis have something to teach us...
Mike S.
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:34 pm

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:47 pm

spanky wrote:
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
anton wrote:Picture the Post Office ... managing your health care.

Sounds good to me.
Seriously, I pack and ship for a living and I've yet to understand any of the standard complaints levied against the post office.

Maybe that's because Fed Ex ships all USPS high priority and overnight mail...

Maybe what's because Fed Ex ships those services I never use? What's your point?

Look - the USPS is a lousy business. They lose millions annually (at least, they used to - haven't checked in a while) and their inefficiency at processing things quickly, given their enormous manpower, is well-documented. Furthermore, not only do they have a monopoly on certain services, they also have all sorts of other unfair advantages over their competitors (government price-fixing, don't pay taxes, use of mail boxes, etc.) yet they still can't make more money than their competitors. No, I wouldn't buy stock in'em if I was looking to invest. But if you want a piece of mail delivered and you don't want it lost or damaged, nobody does it better. I don't give a rat's ass how much better organized UPS or FedEx is if they can't get a package from me to my customer without fucking up. (Those other services, thanks to the USPS's ability to fix rates for their competitors, are also at least three times as expensive, btw.)

Anyway, this only came up in relation to health care and I stand by my original position. Do you want the guys who have less managerial bullshit and are better at turning a profit or the guys who may dawdle a wee bit longer but will actually do the job correctly? I'll take the latter, thank you, for my mail and for my health.
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:16 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Anyway, this only came up in relation to health care and I stand by my original position. Do you want the guys who have less managerial bullshit and are better at turning a profit or the guys who may dawdle a wee bit longer but will actually do the job correctly? I'll take the latter, thank you, for my mail and for my health.


Hey man, I was simply pointing out that when it comes to getting it there quickly in one piece the USPS relies on a private handler.

No need to go postal....sheesh.
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:18 pm

spanky wrote:I was simply pointing out that when it comes to getting it there quickly in one piece the USPS relies on a private handler.
Again: So what?
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:25 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
spanky wrote:I was simply pointing out that when it comes to getting it there quickly in one piece the USPS relies on a private handler.
Again: So what?


Again: Fuck Off. If you are so goddamn thick that you can't see the point in identifying that the governmental monopoly that you are so highly praising relies on a private sector company for the 'heavy-lifting' so to speak, then I guess that's your loss. Quit playing dumb or wake the fuck up ass jacker.

Jesus Breakdancing Christ you need to get laid.
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:35 pm

Uh ... guess I'll just fuck off then, since I'm still clueless how what you just said has any bearing on this discussion.

Can anyone else explain what spanky's point is?
At least tell me why he thinks I'm the one getting all excited when clearly he's the only one foaming at the mouth around here.
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:43 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Uh ... guess I'll just fuck off then, since I'm still clueless how what you just said has any bearing on this discussion.


You say you would prefer to rely on the managerial/tactical system outlined by the governmental monopoly model because it seems to work ok in your experience.

I note that in the high pressure, high priority situations the system you prefer to rely on actually relies on the private sector to get the job completed quickly, efficiently and effectively, because the system that you praise CAN'T DO IT.

Either your analogy (not mine) is flawed, or you by default would rely on the private sector as your preferred model does.

Get it?
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby Chuck_Schick » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:44 pm

I don't get it either, Wags. I mean, the freakin' airlines haul a shitload of first-class mail all around the country too. We all know how efficient they can be at moving people from point A to B, and yet the mail gets where it needs to go in a timely fashion and, generally speaking, in good shape.

Why this somehow detracts from the level of service offered by the USPS escapes me.

Hey, Spanky, name me one government entity that doesn't rely on the private sector to one degree or another. I mean, a national healthcare system would be no different, right? It's not like every doctor would suddenly be a government employee.

So what's with the ire, dude?
Last edited by Chuck_Schick on Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck_Schick
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 10385
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:41 pm
Location: back atcha

Postby mrak » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:44 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Uh ... guess I'll just fuck off then, since I'm still clueless how what you just said has any bearing on this discussion.

Can anyone else explain what spanky's point is?

I'm pretty sure that the USPS has been hiring private haulers to schlep the U.S. Mail around since well before FedEx was a glimmer in Fred Smith's senior thesis. So count me among those that don't find it such a startling revelation.

Maybe it was that private-public partnerships can work well? If so, color me unsurprised again.
mrak
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:26 pm

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:35 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:Hey, Spanky, name me one government entity that doesn't rely on the private sector to one degree or another. I mean, a national healthcare system would be no different, right? It's not like every doctor would suddenly be a government employee.


That's my point. Wags, unless I misunderstood (which it is becoming increasingly clear that I must have), was making the differentiation between the benefits of the gov't monopoly vs. the private sector options and stated he would prefer the reliability of the former (as it relates to healthcare). My point is that reliability is due in large part to the latter, which, in my opinion, makes the original assertation pointless.

Chuck_Schick wrote:So what's with the ire, dude?


It must be the meds. Plus I just wanted to use your breakdancing quote...
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby spanky » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:02 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Do you want the guys who have less managerial bullshit and are better at turning a profit or the guys who may dawdle a wee bit longer but will actually do the job correctly?


My point is that this question is bullshit, the implication that the guys turning a profit don't do the job correctly is crap, cuz guess what... they're doing the job for the dawdlers that you praise so highly - "nobody does it better" than the USPS my ass.

Now, I'm going to take another pill.
spanky
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:57 am

Postby pulsewidth modulation » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:08 am

anton wrote:Insurance companies exist to make money. Period. They will game the system to the fullest extent that society will allow.

Pharmaceutical companies exist to make money. Period. They will game the system to the fullest extent that society will allow.

Malpractice attorneys exist to make money. Period. They will game the system to the fullest extent that society will allow.

Physicians exist to cure disease.


As for the last statement; doctors also expect to turn a profit. Since when should their services be free or more accessible via government force? If the government feels it needs more "access" to doctors, it should stop limiting their capabilities to provide services and numbers within the market. That is common sense; why the restraint against common sense?

There is just one wee-bit of a problem involved with the above "health care system". The whole thing has to filter its way through the government at many levels so political social engineers can tinker with the market in order to legislate in favor of uncompetitive policies levied against favored/un-favored competitors within a specific market, as well as mandate policies levied against/for entire sectors within the "system" in order to provide revenues on behalf of specific sectors located within said politicians districts. Basically, these scenarios artificially pit places like Madison against Howard WI (Howard is outside of Green Bay. A lot of big "insurers" are located there, while actual innovators and providers are located in Madison. "Insurers" tend to have more sway within the government, because they need the government). All of the above entities are not allowed to interact with each other openly in order to satisfy their self interests amongst themselves, minus the social tinkering. Unfortunately, this will never go away, most people hate the idea of open markets for healthcare because they believe the government will shield them against risk. This is false, but Iâ??m sure some interests will continue to push this scare.

Things are the way they are. This country will never see a "universal delivery system"; which is a good thing because that system spits in the face of meritocracy, which is the single most important aspect of American culture.

I'm fairly sure the country will gravitate towards a proposed system in California; which is mandatory "insurance for all" in order to eventually formulate a nation wide risk pool against catastrophic loss. This will finally put a clamp down on "insurers" who basically don't pay out when one of their customers gets hurt in a big and expensive way. Currently in these cases, "insurers" are better off not paying for these types of situations. Instead they pass them off onto the legal system in order to play the legal hold out game.

It's time "insurers" get back to being "insurers" not private healthcare rationing entities.
pulsewidth modulation
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2451
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:18 pm

Postby Chuck_Schick » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:37 am

Our Resident Cultural Illiterate wrote: ... that system spits in the face of meritocracy, which is the single most important aspect of American culture.

Gee, those who know their history would cite the Bill of Rights, or at the very least the First Amendment.

Learn your fuckin' history already, idiot.
Chuck_Schick
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 10385
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:41 pm
Location: back atcha

Previous

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media and 3 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


FacebookcommentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar