MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Saturday, April 19, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 34.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

"I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Walter » Thu May 06, 2010 7:46 pm

After looking at those pictures, any car parked in those paved areas would be on the terrace and could be ticketed for it. That's the parking part of it. So, call 266-4275 to report the on-street parking violation, especially when Parking Enforcement is out taking calls, since they are the experts. They have people assigned to call from 7am until 10:30pm.

The other part is the paving of the terrace. I would guess that paving the terrace is a Building/Zoning/Housing violation. You could call George Hank at 266-4849 at Housing Inspection with the addresses and he will sort out who needs to take a look at and deal with the violation.

If it really irritates you, call your Alder. Bury him under a ton of emails...no problem will get addressed more quickly than one that has an Alder's attention. Isn't that District 10, Chris Schmidt's ?
Walter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Motorzburg

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby fennel » Thu May 06, 2010 8:25 pm

Walter wrote:After looking at those pictures, any car parked in those paved areas would be on the terrace and could be ticketed for it.

Well ... thanks. At least, now I know that the sky over west Madison isn't expected to be fluorescent chartreuse simply because that's just the way it's done hereabouts. (I was beginning to worry that I was really living in Chicago.)

And, say, have you ever been accused of being congenitally sane? "Ask your Doctor!"
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3004
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Walter » Thu May 06, 2010 8:41 pm

fennel wrote:
Walter wrote:And, say, have you ever been accused of being congenitally sane? "Ask your Doctor!"


Well, I did pass a psych evaluation for my job. But I just told him what he wanted to hear. Seemed easier at the time...
Walter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Motorzburg

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby supaunknown » Fri May 07, 2010 10:33 am

Walter wrote:After looking at those pictures, any car parked in those paved areas would be on the terrace and could be ticketed for it. That's the parking part of it. So, call 266-4275 to report the on-street parking violation, especially when Parking Enforcement is out taking calls, since they are the experts. They have people assigned to call from 7am until 10:30pm.

The other part is the paving of the terrace. I would guess that paving the terrace is a Building/Zoning/Housing violation. You could call George Hank at 266-4849 at Housing Inspection with the addresses and he will sort out who needs to take a look at and deal with the violation.

I asked my 80 year old dad what he calls that strip of land between the gutter & sidewalk and he said, "In Madison it's called a terrace. Many years ago it was called a parkway."

Maybe it used to be legal to park on the parkway?
supaunknown
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5574
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:22 pm

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Exploding Pinto » Fri May 07, 2010 4:54 pm

Ya know what's even more ridiculous than getting a ticket for
stringing up a hammock on State Street? STRINGING UP A HAMMOCK ON STATE STREET!

Walter makes mention of the guy pulling this hammock prank previously as well; if that's the case, this kid had it coming.
Exploding Pinto
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Korrigan » Sun May 09, 2010 3:45 am

Walter wrote:After some review, here's my take:

This happened around 11:45 pm in front of 127 State Street, so it wasn't in the Concrete Park area where our Children of the Dirt have been trying to establish their hangout on the terrace since Peace Park has been closed. The report makes mention that the Hammocker was attracting attention and a crowd around him. There is also no mention that this was an on-going problem and the Hammocker has done this in the past to the Sgt.'s knowledge. Also, the Sgt. was not on a Mifflin Street assignment but on a Downtown Safety Initiative Grant after working her regular patrol shift. The basic DSI ground rule is that ordinance violations, especially ones involving liquor law violations on the street and disruptive behavior, are to be dealt with using citations or physical arrests where appropriate as a tool to demonstrate that those behaviors will not be tolerated in the State Street/University/King Street "entertainment corridor".


I'm curious--I think I witnessed two of the Children of the Dirt (is that really their name?) being arrested and taken away in a squad car late one evening (around 9pm) in late April. They had been there at least all day with cardboard set on part of the sidewalk---albeit the part between planters, street, and main sidewalk, sans curb cut or crosswalk, so only loiterers or jaywalkers across State Street would have been using it. A man was being placed in a squad car when we walked by, and then a woman was questioning officers why they arrested him and then they arrested her, apparently for not moving her stuff.

It appeared to me they were arrested for not moving their stuff? Or was it for 'camping' or blocking the vestigial bit of sidewalk? Five or six squad cars were present and parked in such a way that buses were held up on State Street.

I was curious why they weren't removed earlier in the day. They didn't seem violent but two officers were yelling orders and one shouted something to effect of "get your crap out of here" (the crap word was definitely spoken). One arrested individual's duffle bag or backpack, I forget, was abandoned by police because it weighed more than 10 pounds and collected by a non-arrested acquaintance of theirs.

Not knowing the context of what was going on, I was still a bit stunned at the behavior of the police officers, for Madison. I felt like I was observing a nuisance removal after the yuppie condo dwellers had gone to bed. Or was there some time limit for squatting on the paved terrace? I couldn't tell if they committed liquor law violations and they didn't seem disruptive per se. I looked for an incident report on the city's web site, but didn't find one.

Of course, if the "Children" had been wise enough to walk around holding their signs, not obstructing pedestrian flow (albeit in a spot where none existed--other than jaywalking, assuming that's an ordinance violation on State Street), I don't think they'd have been arrested.
Korrigan
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:18 pm

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Walter » Sun May 09, 2010 9:22 am

Korrigan wrote:I'm curious--I think I witnessed two of the Children of the Dirt (is that really their name?)....

It appeared to me they were arrested for not moving their stuff?

I was curious why they weren't removed earlier in the day. They didn't seem violent but two officers were yelling orders and one shouted something to effect of "get your crap out of here" (the crap word was definitely spoken). One arrested individual's duffle bag or backpack, I forget, was abandoned by police because it weighed more than 10 pounds and collected by a non-arrested acquaintance of theirs.

Not knowing the context of what was going on, I was still a bit stunned at the behavior of the police officers, for Madison.

Of course, if the "Children" had been wise enough to walk around holding their signs, not obstructing pedestrian flow (albeit in a spot where none existed--other than jaywalking, assuming that's an ordinance violation on State Street), I don't think they'd have been arrested.


That's not really their name, just a name that's come to refer to the influx of street squatters and train hoppers who roll into town in the spring and hang on State.

That's why they were arrested...they had been pushing a confrontation by refusing to move. The woman, Dawn is her first name if I remember correctly, more or less told the cops "make me"...oops.

Don't know why it didn't happen earlier. Maybe we finally had enough cops free to be able to arrest everybody if they all wanted to get arrested. It's not something we'd pull officers into Central from another district to deal with. Someone doesn't have to be violent to get yelled at...it's called heavy control talk and used to get compliance when someone doesn't respond to requests or spoken orders. The backpack wouldn't be abandoned...the jail won't take backpacks so we try to leave them with someone the arrested person wants to look after it. Otherwise, it goes into our property room. If someone gets out of jail on Friday night, they couldn't get the backpack until Monday morning, which is a big deal if the backpack is all you own.

What stunned you exactly? The number of cops, yelling, the arrests? We need to have numbers to deal with the problem, not everyone follows directions or responds to "please" and "thank you", and according to our policy, people who have no permanent address are to be physically arrested.

They may not have been arrested if they had done as you said. However, this was a problem area for that exact behavior and they (the woman for sure) had been repeatedly told not to sit there with all their stuff. Sooner or later, enough is enough. If you let things go on State for too long, it becomes nearly uncontrollable. You got to Barney Fife it down there: "Nip it in the bud, Barn...Nip it in the bud!"
Walter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Motorzburg

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby fennel » Sun May 09, 2010 11:27 am

Walter wrote:...it's called heavy control talk and used to get compliance when someone doesn't respond...
In certain venues, one has to pay extra for that.
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3004
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Ducatista » Sun May 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Walter wrote:I gave up on calling it a boulevard after all the blank looks and slack-jawed reactions. I was assimilated into the WI language borg, although I will never give up my "drinking fountain".

I grew up in central WI, gateway to Up Nort', and we called it a boulevard. Never heard it called anything else until I moved to Madison. We said drinking fountain up there, too, more often than bubbler, though bubbler wasn't uncommon.
Ducatista
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: 53703

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby buckyor » Sun May 09, 2010 1:10 pm

Henry Vilas wrote: I grew up on a section of Berkeley Blvd. in Whitefolks Bay that had no grassy divide, while tonier parts of the boulevard did.

The boulevard portions of Berkeley (and of Diversey, one street over, where I lived) were several blocks north, near Silver Spring.
buckyor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2328
Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 1:09 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Korrigan » Mon May 10, 2010 8:26 am

Walter wrote:
Korrigan wrote:I'm curious--I think I witnessed two of the Children of the Dirt (is that really their name?)....

It appeared to me they were arrested for not moving their stuff?

I was curious why they weren't removed earlier in the day. They didn't seem violent but two officers were yelling orders and one shouted something to effect of "get your crap out of here" (the crap word was definitely spoken). One arrested individual's duffle bag or backpack, I forget, was abandoned by police because it weighed more than 10 pounds and collected by a non-arrested acquaintance of theirs.

Not knowing the context of what was going on, I was still a bit stunned at the behavior of the police officers, for Madison.

Of course, if the "Children" had been wise enough to walk around holding their signs, not obstructing pedestrian flow (albeit in a spot where none existed--other than jaywalking, assuming that's an ordinance violation on State Street), I don't think they'd have been arrested.


That's not really their name, just a name that's come to refer to the influx of street squatters and train hoppers who roll into town in the spring and hang on State.

That's why they were arrested...they had been pushing a confrontation by refusing to move. The woman, Dawn is her first name if I remember correctly, more or less told the cops "make me"...oops.

Don't know why it didn't happen earlier. Maybe we finally had enough cops free to be able to arrest everybody if they all wanted to get arrested. It's not something we'd pull officers into Central from another district to deal with. Someone doesn't have to be violent to get yelled at...it's called heavy control talk and used to get compliance when someone doesn't respond to requests or spoken orders. The backpack wouldn't be abandoned...the jail won't take backpacks so we try to leave them with someone the arrested person wants to look after it. Otherwise, it goes into our property room. If someone gets out of jail on Friday night, they couldn't get the backpack until Monday morning, which is a big deal if the backpack is all you own.

What stunned you exactly? The number of cops, yelling, the arrests? We need to have numbers to deal with the problem, not everyone follows directions or responds to "please" and "thank you", and according to our policy, people who have no permanent address are to be physically arrested.

They may not have been arrested if they had done as you said. However, this was a problem area for that exact behavior and they (the woman for sure) had been repeatedly told not to sit there with all their stuff. Sooner or later, enough is enough. If you let things go on State for too long, it becomes nearly uncontrollable. You got to Barney Fife it down there: "Nip it in the bud, Barn...Nip it in the bud!"


Thanks for your reply.

I was stunned by the yelling and the arrests in the context of behavior (sitting on an unusable part of sidewalk) that seemed at the time to be more annoying than dangerous or illegal. (As I mentioned, I observed it after an unknown-to-me amount of exchanges or requests by police had already been made and not followed.) I was surprised by the number of police cars, but then realized it was to allow for arrests.

One further question; you wrote:
[...]and according to our policy, people who have no permanent address are to be physically arrested.


Just to clarify--the full context of this quote is further up above--but do you mean that people who would ordinarily be ticketed for something, are instead arrested, if they have no permanent address? Or is it a broader arrest policy than that?
Korrigan
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:18 pm

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Walter » Mon May 10, 2010 9:59 am

To be precise, a ticket is technically an arrest. Until it is issued and the person is released, he is not free to leave and are in custody. It is not considered a physical arrest as he will be released on his own recognizance. So the question is about the physical arrest of someone who is NPA (No Permanent Address) and to what extent it is the policy of the Madison Police Department.

The reason someone who is NPA is physically arrested is because he does not have the tie to the community that a residence implies. The same applies to someone who is an out-of-state resident in that he has no tie to Madison itself. An out-of-state college student who can provide a local address would generally not be physically arrested.

A person falling under either circumstance will be physically arrested and taken to jail to be given the opportunity to post bail. The purpose of bail is to ensure appearance in court or to provide payment of the fine in the event the person skips the court appearance, resulting in an automatic plea of guilty.

In the event that the person will not or can not pay bail, I believe there is a mechanism in place that allows for review by the municipal judge to release the person after a certain amount of "time served". I've heard it's usually 1 to 2 days per offense, maybe longer, depending on the nature and number of offenses. If the person doesn't want to accept this arrangement, I suppose he would sit until his court date, which is about 30 days out from the date of arrest. I've never heard of this happening though. I think the person is just given the boot after time served and told to come back on the original court date if he still wishes to contest the charge. I'm thinking of someone who is unwilling to pay bail in order to exercise his principles or make a statement in the last case.

Another reason someone might be physically arrested is if he presents a continuing threat his behavior will not be curbed by a cite and release. Clearly, we're not going to release someone who is just going to continue with the behavior that led to his citation in the first place.

I would say the physical arrest policy is relatively narrow in focus but does cover more than just persons without a permanent address. The policy has been in effect of many years, probably a few decades. The vast majority of persons arrested for city ordinance violations by Madison Police are cited and released.
Walter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Motorzburg

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby Walter » Mon May 10, 2010 10:06 am

In case anyone wants to check it out, Arrest and Bail is under Policy 7-100 in our policy manual, which can be found here:

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/documents/PolicyandProcedureManual.pdf

It's fascinating reading. OK, not really, but have at it.
Walter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:28 am
Location: Motorzburg

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby chris! » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:15 am

I'm glad the police are protecting us from renegade hammock users. I was worried for a bit.
chris!
Member
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:54 am

Re: "I think people were done getting warnings for the day"

Postby massimo » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:27 am

You a friend of Z! ?
massimo
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:52 pm
Location: Madison

Previous

Return to Town Vibe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


FacebookcommentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar