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Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

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Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby Beaver » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:19 pm

Instead of Single Payer insurance like Canada has we get Obamacare which is modeled after Romney-care that he passed as Mass Gov. And it's modeled after the very conservative Heritage Foundation plan. But Dems are praising it and Repubs are bashing it because Obama passed it. Republicans should be happy with it.

http://cognidissidence.blogspot.com/201 ... id=dlvr.it

"President Obama's signature healthcare legislation(Obamacare) is modeled after the very successful Romneycare in Massachusetts that was really Mitt Romney's only professional success...Secondly, this is also good news for republican Senate hopeful Tommy G Thompson, who has long supported the individual mandate and has had nothing but good things to say about Romneycare."

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

"In summary, the Republican opposition to ObamaCare (a.k.a. RomneyCase a.k.a HeritageCare) is purely political since it was their plan to start with. If a Republican senator had introduced it during either Bush administration it would have sailed through Congress with a huge bipartisan majorities. After all, 40% of the Republican senators voted for Medicare, which is essentially socialized insurance and goes much further than ObamaCare...One of the many things that Obama did wrong in this whole matter is fail to emphasize that the ACA was rooted in a long-standing conservative plan that Republicans had supported for years. Only after his election did they begin to oppose it."
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Re: Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby pjbogart » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:31 pm

I think there a few things that Republicans truly detest about the ACA and the one they crow about the most, the health care mandate, is the one they care about the least. It plays politically so they seized on it.

The health insurance exchanges are going to be well defined and that leaves less room for profit taking. It also puts them in a position where they can't divide up territories and agree to not compete against one another, something which should be illegal but they've been doing it for a long time now.

The very existence of the health insurance exchanges probably frightens the hell out of insurance companies, not just because competition will be far greater, but because it would be fairly simple at some future date to slip in a "Medicare-e type" option either through a State of Federal program. Imagine if Wisconsin decided to offer an non-subsidized Badgercare option in our exchange. No advertising costs, no CEO making $20 million/year, no shareholders and the deep pockets of the State to absorb any losses. That's a rational fear on the part of insurers.

The 80/20 rule will impose serious cost-cutting measures upon health insurance companies. If 80% of their collected premiums must be used on health care, it will be very hard to maintain advertising, bloated executive pay and dividends.

Lastly, I've still got some questions (if anyone knows the answers) about the ability to appeal insurance company decisions, aka "death panels" because they could threaten cost controls. Currently your insurance company more or less has the final word on whether treating you for a terminal illness is cost effective. Sure, you can wind your way through the court system to try to force them to pay, but they've got lots of lawyers and your clock is ticking. The ability to get an expedited appeal on an insurance company's decision not to treat you has a great upside, but it has a very real downside as well. If those panels are too quick to force insurance companies to pay for pointless procedures which are expensive and unlikely to benefit you, we'll all pay in the end.
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Re: Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby Beaver » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:38 am

Here is an article claiming the ruling was a victory for Repubs. Why are they complaining about it and Dems celebrating?:

http://www.imcitizen.net/chief-justice- ... -a-genius/
Chief Justice Roberts Is A Genius

"Ultimately, Roberts supported states rights by limiting the federal government’s coercive abilities. He ruled that the government can not force the people to purchase products or services under the commerce clause and he forced liberals to have to come clean and admit that Obama-care is funded by tax increases."
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Re: Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby wack wack » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:51 am

Beaver wrote:Here is an article claiming the ruling was a victory for Repubs. Why are they complaining about it and Dems celebrating?


The current Republican party is the the sorest bunch of losers this country has ever seen. They'll spin anything to call it a win because they simply cannot accept losing.
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Re: Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby david cohen » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:39 am

ACA places more people in the system. It's a boon for insurers. I just hope that the doctors (primary care) see more income out of this. But I'm sure that the insurers will make out like bandits, and the GOP must be loving that.
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Re: Obamacare is a victory for Republicans

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Beaver wrote:Instead of Single Payer insurance like Canada has we get Obamacare which is modeled after Romney-care that he passed as Mass Gov. And it's modeled after the very conservative Heritage Foundation plan


Beav, what you say is all accurate, but you miss seeing the forest for the trees.

Who gives a flying fuck whether past generations of Republicans supported versions of Obamacare? Excuse the inexcusable nazi reference, but it's like saying in 1939 that the Germans of the 1920's were rather likeable, with their cabarets and all.

Today the challenge is the Tea Party, and they are organized and popular.

And frankly, nobody should be getting there undies in a bundle because they didn't get their way on single payer. Take 4/5 of a loaf and be happy.

I have two quotes to bring reality into focus.

From our friends down south, the response to fed-funded medicaid expansion:
In South Carolina, Rob Godfrey, a spokesman for Gov. Nikki R. Haley, said, “We’re not going to shove more South Carolinians into a broken system that further ties our hands when we know the best way to find South Carolina solutions for South Carolina health problems is through the flexibility that block grants provide.”


Paul Krugman summarizes:
But what was and is really striking about the anti-reformers is their cruelty. It would be one thing if, at any point, they had offered any hint of an alternative proposal to help Americans with pre-existing conditions, Americans who simply can’t afford expensive individual insurance, Americans who lose coverage along with their jobs. But it has long been obvious that the opposition’s goal is simply to kill reform, never mind the human consequences. We should all be thankful that, for the moment at least, that effort has failed.


The Republicans of today are so passionately against universal health care, they will forgo their favorite thing in the world to stop it - money!
What "flexibility of fixed block grants for medicaid" means is Republican are prepared to create even more uninsured and uninsurable people. They will turn down money to do better. They are against helping the poor through government as a matter of principle.

Slavery had become economically disadvantagous by 1860. The South insisted on keeping it out of sense of sovereigty and pure meanness, or as they would call it, "principle."
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