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Will Wanggaard want recount?

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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:14 pm

No. there are many elderly Wisconsinites that have given up driving, but still vote. The elderly have a higher rate of casting a ballot than younger people. Their expired driver's licenses wouldn't work as idenification under the enjoined Voter ID law.

Yet people with valid driver's licenses aren't always eligible, since some are felons who haven't served out their probation or parole (such as Walker supported and railroad CEO William Gardner) and some as legal resident aliens. Yet under that law, their DLs would give them access to the ballot.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:39 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:No. there are many elderly Wisconsinites that have given up driving, but still vote. The elderly have a higher rate of casting a ballot than younger people. Their expired driver's licenses wouldn't work as idenification under the enjoined Voter ID law.

Yet people with valid driver's licenses aren't always eligible, since some are felons who haven't served out their probation or parole (such as Walker supported and railroad CEO William Gardner) and some as legal resident aliens. Yet under that law, their DLs would give them access to the ballot.


So you are actually arguing that the voter ID bill made it legal for felons to vote based on the fact that felons can attain a driver's license? Come on.

And I'm just not buying that there are all of these THOUSANDS of VOTERS running around with no photo ID. Not in 2012 sorry. I just don't buy it.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:45 pm

I just don't buy it.


And yet it remains to be completely true. It's a good thing we have facts and studies to go by instead of just going off the gut feelings of one completely brainwashed moran.

To recap: Proof of significant amounts of voter fraud? Doesn't exist yet Earthling believes it to be true. Proof that thousands and thousands of WI citizens don't have ID's? Completely factual and backed by evidence up yet Earthling doesn't buy it. Believe the spin and deny the facts.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:46 pm

Felons or resident aliens can access the polls with their valid driver's license. I never said that was legal. I just posited that the Voter ID law does not prevent the fraud you think it does. And on top of that it disenfranchises thousands of otherwise eligible voters. Does that sink in?
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:55 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
I just don't buy it.


And yet it remains to be completely true. It's a good thing we have facts and studies to go by instead of just going off the gut feelings of one completely brainwashed moran.

To recap: Proof of significant amounts of voter fraud? Doesn't exist yet Earthling believes it to be true. Proof that thousands and thousands of WI citizens don't have ID's? Completely factual and backed by evidence up yet Earthling doesn't buy it. Believe the spin and deny the facts.


AGAIN I don't doubt that there aren't thousands of WI citizens that don't have ID's. I don't buy that very many of them are going to be the voting kind. I also don't buy that those of them who do vote wouldn't go get the frickin ID if they had to in order to vote.

But what you want to do is manufacture this group of disenfranchised in order to serve your purpose.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Felons or resident aliens can access the polls with their valid driver's license. I never said that was legal. I just posited that the Voter ID law does not prevent the fraud you think it does. And on top of that it disenfranchises thousands of otherwise eligible voters. Does that sink in?


I understand that you so desperately want this group of disenfranchised voters to exist. Sorry it just doesn't. You have no more proof of this than I do that voter fraud exists in high numbers.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby lukpac » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:01 pm

Earthling wrote:Sorry it just doesn't.


Logic was never Earthling's strong suit.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:05 pm

lukpac wrote:
Earthling wrote:Sorry it just doesn't.


Logic was never Earthling's strong suit.


So let me see which of these more logical:

That there is a large segment of the population in Wisconsin that would become disenfranchised from voting should it be required that photo ID presented at the polling place (you are literally talking about a large group of people that not only don't have photo ID's, but that vote, and wouldn't attain the ID if it became mandatory)

OR

Democrats are focussed on creating the disenfranchised segment of the population in order to block legislation that would hurt their chances in upcoming elections
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:05 pm

Here are my facts. Now let's see yours.
Wisconsin's population is substantially less likely to have a state-issued identification. The study showed that the following numbers about those without state-issued photo identification and who would need to obtain one under the Wisconsin Voter ID bill:

•Over 177,000 elderly Wisconsinites
•17 percent of white men and women
•55 percent of African American men and 49 percent of African American women
•46 percent of Hispanic men and 59 percent of Hispanic women
•78 percent of African American men age 18-24 and 66 percent of African American women age 18-24
[Driver License Status of the Voting Age Population in Wisconsin, 6/05]
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby lukpac » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:08 pm

Earthling wrote:So let me see which of these more logical:

That there is a large segment of the population in Wisconsin that would become disenfranchised from voting should it be required that photo ID presented at the polling place (you are literally talking about a large group of people that not only don't have photo ID's, but that vote, and wouldn't attain the ID if it became mandatory)

OR

Democrats are focussed on creating the disenfranchised segment of the population in order to block legislation that would hurt their chances in upcoming elections


Why would it hurt their chances if people weren't actually disenfranchised?
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:11 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Here are my facts. Now let's see yours.
Wisconsin's population is substantially less likely to have a state-issued identification. The study showed that the following numbers about those without state-issued photo identification and who would need to obtain one under the Wisconsin Voter ID bill:

•Over 177,000 elderly Wisconsinites
•17 percent of white men and women
•55 percent of African American men and 49 percent of African American women
•46 percent of Hispanic men and 59 percent of Hispanic women
•78 percent of African American men age 18-24 and 66 percent of African American women age 18-24
[Driver License Status of the Voting Age Population in Wisconsin, 6/05]


These numbers mean shit unless you can tell me how many of them are going to vote. If none of them vote then this disenfranchisement doesn't exist.

BTW how sad is it that greater than 50% of the hispanic and black communities don't have ID's?
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:12 pm

lukpac wrote:
Earthling wrote:So let me see which of these more logical:

That there is a large segment of the population in Wisconsin that would become disenfranchised from voting should it be required that photo ID presented at the polling place (you are literally talking about a large group of people that not only don't have photo ID's, but that vote, and wouldn't attain the ID if it became mandatory)

OR

Democrats are focussed on creating the disenfranchised segment of the population in order to block legislation that would hurt their chances in upcoming elections


Why would it hurt their chances if people weren't actually disenfranchised?


Let's just say I'm fairly confident that eliminating voter fraud isn't going to help democrats out.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:19 pm

Earthling wrote:But what you want to do is manufacture this group of disenfranchised in order to serve your purpose.


Much like you're manufacturing all of these people committing voter fraud.
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby lukpac » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:21 pm

Earthling wrote:Let's just say I'm fairly confident that eliminating voter fraud isn't going to help democrats out.


And...why would you say that?
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Re: Will Wanggaard want recount?

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:23 pm

lukpac wrote:
Earthling wrote:Let's just say I'm fairly confident that eliminating voter fraud isn't going to help democrats out.


And...why would you say that?


Call it a hunch
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