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Greens offer advice, but old false claims linger

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Do you think Greens should admit they were wrong to say Gore and Bush were no different?

Yes, after all, they claim to set a higher standard and trot out new claims for us to believe.
25
76%
No, being Green means never having to say you're sorry.
8
24%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: Vote your conscience, whatever that means.

Postby Dodge » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:59 pm

Smartypants wrote: So, why start getting pissy with each other now? Greens, build the party locally and take it nationally gradually. :twisted:


Consider that the Greens have done EXACTLY that. Founded in the mid 1980s. Started locally. Went nationally.

The strategy is not the issue. The system is.
Dodge
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Re: Vote your conscience, whatever that means.

Postby Smartypants » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:23 pm

Dodge wrote:
Smartypants wrote: So, why start getting pissy with each other now? Greens, build the party locally and take it nationally gradually. :twisted:


Consider that the Greens have done EXACTLY that. Founded in the mid 1980s. Started locally. Went nationally.

The strategy is not the issue. The system is.


Well, the system is not going away in 2004. I have no problem with idealism, I tend to suffer from it myself, but it's also necessary to infuse a healthy dose of realism now and then. I would guess that most Dems and Greens have a lot more in common than different ('cept maybe the DNC twits) and anyone who has any conservative idealogue friends might know that they view the US as being in a serious state of culture wars.

Therefore, the system dictates how the game is won or lost. Consider that carefully and if Greens are the 'spoiler' party again in '04, well, see my earlier post. You get the government you deserve. If you're willing to live with that until the system somehow changes (revolution anyone?), then that's certainly one's prerogative. I'm supporting Dean right now and if he wins the nomination, great, but if Dems and Greens don't come together it won't matter. I will support anyone who I think has a shot at vindicating the 2000 election and especially a candidate who is willing the grab the DNC by the ankles and shake the change out of their pockets. What a useless bunch that is, well, except for the fact that when they came after Dean, his popularity actually went UP. :twisted:

Dean/Clark, is there really another slate that can win?
Smartypants
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Location: In an office somewhere....

Re: Vote your conscience, whatever that means.

Postby Mr. Pants » Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:38 am

True Blue wrote:Riiiiiiight. All Democrats are lost in the wilderness waiting for the beacon of Green brilliance to show them the way out. :roll: Whatever.

Your political viewer seems stuck on black & white. You need to upgrade to 8, 16, 256 or more colors. You're missing a lot of detail.


Usually I agree with you True, but this time I have to ask did you even read any of my posts in here or any other forums? Before you whip out your crayolas to color me green, read what I wrote. If I were Green, I wouldn�t have said I could support Kerry. Also, as my other posts point out I am a big supporter of Dean. They are my preferences, but I would pretty much be willing to vote for any of those currently running on the Democratic platform except for Lieberman.

Maybe I didn't make it clear that I supported Nader when I was in college, but not now. You can't deny that Nader played a very important role in that election by bringing people to the voting booths who had stopped caring about politics. After the election, if you are one of those that subscribe to the theory that Nader cost Gore the election, I think he showed a lot of people that voting does make a difference. I feel, and maybe this is just me being idealistic, that we will see a much larger turn out at the voting booths than we have in a long time. He also introduced a new way to campaign. Dean's supporters have grasped onto this and have blown it up in a big way.

I personally don't feel that Nader received enough votes to cost Gore the election. Gore won the popular vote. Voters were disenfranchised in Florida. Those factors had more to do with it than Nader's two percent. Hillary said that the Electoral College was a broken system and she was going to work towards fixing it. I ask again, what happened with that?

Also, I never said that ââ?¬Å?all democratsââ?¬? were lost in the woods. You are twisting my words. I said ââ?¬Å?someââ?¬? of them needed a wake up call and I put ââ?¬Å?someââ?¬? in all caps for emphasis.

The Greens don't have to apologize for anything. We were all taught a valuable lesson by their participation in the "democratic" process.
Mr. Pants
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Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Madison-East Side

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