MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Saturday, April 19, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 55.0° F  Partly Cloudy
Collapse Photo Bar

Web Site Headlines

Comments on the paper, the website, the mobile site and all other Isthmus-generated products go here.

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby jjoyce » Thu May 07, 2009 10:26 am

TAsunder wrote:What I disputed is the long-term value and business sense of banner ads as a primary source of income.


I don't know who you are, but you've been on this site for a long time and you typically have interesting things to say. But this way of discussing an issue, online or off, is maddening.

Where did I type or say what you're arguing against with that sentence?

In this thread, you have assumed all sorts of things about our business model that are inaccurate, treated them as fact and argued against it. The truth about online revenue models is that successful general interest sites need to cobble together a bunch of them. With the way we're situated in the market, display advertising is clearly going to be part of that. We deliver eyeballs.

Yes, turning off ads hurts us, because they figure into the mix. Your response to that statement is that if that's the only way we're making money, then we're on a sinking ship. How do you get from A to B there? It's like saying if the Brewers hit 4 homers in a game, they win 80% of the time, so if you can keep them inside the park, you'll beat them.
jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Thu May 07, 2009 10:50 am

TheBookPolice wrote:Telemarketers selling debt management and whatever the hell else they sell--I wouldn't know because I don't have a land line anymore. And I think the horse is kind of out of the barn that telemarketers are almost universally reviled, and the products they sold generally questionable. Fireman's charity? They couldn't tell you how much money was going to the charity if you gave them an hour.


The same is true of internet advertising. Largely reviled, often selling questionable goods (YOUR COMPUTER IS AT RISK! CLICK HERE!). At times, actually compromising your computer. At least telemarketers don't infect you by calling.

So let's compare those telemarketers to, say, the lineup I'm facing right now. Flavor of India, High Noon Saloon, Sa-Bai Thong, Out, Alt.com, and two Isthmus-sponsored ads. Yeah, those all seem pretty dangerous and invasive. Come on.


They certainly could be called invasive based on the complaints. But more importantly, a single advertiser vs all telemarketers is not exactly a reasonable comparison. How about all telemarketers vs all internet advertisers. Seems like a decent comparison to me.

No land line in this case = ad blocking, BTW. Thought I'd throw that out there.

Does it help TDP if you block ads?


It might. If the advertising audience is more likely to respond to ads, then the ads are more valuable in the long term, even if they are hurt in the short term.

Conversely, is there a chance that it might hurt them? Given that the current ad profile is pretty inoffensive, I see no reason to chance the latter.


Right. I didn't get AdBlock+ for the daily page. I got it for all the bad folks out there. I simply choose not to disable it on the daily page.
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TheBookPolice » Thu May 07, 2009 10:58 am

No, TA. Not having a land line = NOT GOING TO SHITTY SITES WITH INFECTIOUS AND DAMAGING ADS. Caller ID would be AdBlock+. If you can't run with my metaphor, we're gonna be at this for a lot longer.

If I stumble across a website whose banners scream at me, or generate pop-ups, or get caught trying to Trojan me, I don't go there anymore. TDP's ads have never done that, ever. The scrolling images in the Madtown Food and Drink banner bundle are a little much sometimes, but not in an offensive or destructive way.
TheBookPolice
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8317
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: The mystical Far East

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Thu May 07, 2009 11:08 am

jjoyce wrote:I don't know who you are, but you've been on this site for a long time and you typically have interesting things to say. But this way of discussing an issue, online or off, is maddening.

Where did I type or say what you're arguing against with that sentence?


You didn't. Someone else did. That's what started this line of conversation.

In this thread, you have assumed all sorts of things about our business model that are inaccurate, treated them as fact and argued against it. The truth about online revenue models is that successful general interest sites need to cobble together a bunch of them. With the way we're situated in the market, display advertising is clearly going to be part of that. We deliver eyeballs.

Yes, turning off ads hurts us, because they figure into the mix.


If me turning off an entire category of internet ads for all sites hurts you, because you are using the same method of delivering ads as a score of highly unethical businesses (even if the content is much more benign than those predators), then I don't much care. I also don't care if I block calls of certain telemarketers in a way that might end up hurting a company I like.

I will gladly contribute to TDP in other ways as an advertising subject or willing monetary contributor, but I am unmoved by the notion that I am hurting TDP by blocking an entire category of advertisements that frequently, if not usually, are a nuisance.

AdBlock+ wasn't created out of some nefarious desire to rob people of money. It was created out of a truly legitimate need to avoid a category of advertising that has often been a nuisance to the Internet. I did not do anything explicit to have it block TDP ads. The only thing I "did" was actually something I "didn't do" which was unblock the ads. Maybe one day I'll do that, but not when my confidence in TDP's ability to use appropriate ads is absent.

I am unwilling to accept the notion that the viewers who have at times been harmed in tangible ways by internet ads should be blamed for not wanting to see internet ads. I am unmoved by the claim that this could eventually doom a company that allegedly (not alleged by me) can't survive without them.

That is the point.

Your response to that statement is that if that's the only way we're making money, then we're on a sinking ship. How do you get from A to B there?


It wasn't my analogy.
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TheBookPolice » Thu May 07, 2009 11:12 am

For the record, I don't believe I ever said that TDP's only source of revenue, or even its main source, was advertising. I'm not privy to that information.
TheBookPolice
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8317
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: The mystical Far East

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Thu May 07, 2009 11:14 am

TheBookPolice wrote:No, TA. Not having a land line = NOT GOING TO SHITTY SITES WITH INFECTIOUS AND DAMAGING ADS. Caller ID would be AdBlock+. If you can't run with my metaphor, we're gonna be at this for a lot longer.


AdBlock+ blocks ads by default. I am not actively choosing to turn them off for each individual case. Nor am I interrupted by ads when I don't want to be. The phone rings when you receive caller id. The telemarketers are still interacting with you in some way.

No land line = you don't receive calls. But if you give your cell # to a telemarketer, you could still receive telemarketing calls. If I disable AdBlock+, I can receive ads.

Your metaphor is not meaningful.

Not all telemarketers are trying to harm you. Not all advertisers are trying to harm you. Some of each are. TDP isn't trying to harm me, though I suspect they are trying to distract me (given that they make frequent use of animated images). Obama campaigners aren't trying to harm me either.

Furthermore, even on sites that do have obnoxious or harmful ads, it is often not the intent of the site to do so as they have simply joined on to a large ad network.

If I stumble across a website whose banners scream at me, or generate pop-ups, or get caught trying to Trojan me, I don't go there anymore. TDP's ads have never done that, ever. The scrolling images in the Madtown Food and Drink banner bundle are a little much sometimes, but not in an offensive or destructive way.


Yet you don't apply the same heuristic to telemarketers. Some of which are not trying to harm you, ever.
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Thu May 07, 2009 11:17 am

TheBookPolice wrote:For the record, I don't believe I ever said that TDP's only source of revenue, or even its main source, was advertising. I'm not privy to that information.


So the boat isn't sinking after all, eh?
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TheBookPolice » Thu May 07, 2009 11:27 am

Who said sinking?

TheBookPolice wrote:If by "participate in the arms race," you mean "drilling a hole in your own boat." Sure, we might all evolve to have gills, but people are gonna drown before that ever happens.

TheBookPolice wrote:No, TDP is the boat (mental note: "The Boat" could be a very cool new nickname). You're the one drowning, because using ad-blockers on a free site like TDP is just hastening the demise of the site, something you as a user clearly must not want to happen.

I said your actions are potentially damaging.

And I've never, in my many years of receiving telemarketing cold-calls, been offered something worth listening to, much less purchasing. I don't turn off all advertising; I simply turn off the ones I know to be valueless. Kind of like not going to websites that broadcast Trojans and obnoxious ads. TV ads: occasionally allowed. Radio ads: occasionally allowed. Internet ads: occasionally allowed. Mail ads: rarely allowed. Telephone ads: Never allowed.

I get it. You and jammybastard are rocking this one together. You were scarred by an intrusive ad as a child. It was very traumatic. Fine. But you've taken your argument past "I don't want to see ads, and I don't care if it might harm the website" to "you're a fool if you think ads are okay."

Bottom line is I can't really argue with either one, because your mind is made up. So is mine. I've made my point just fine, while you've called it an "absurd, thought-terminating cliche." Thanks for that modicum of respect.
TheBookPolice
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8317
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: The mystical Far East

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby Shipley » Thu May 07, 2009 11:40 am

this thread has gone on far too stupidly long.

ads = money
website + paper = money

therfor ads = website + paper.

if what they're doing is working, then I have no reason to judge. BTW I got BANNED FOR LIFE from google ads becuase they claimed click fraud just as I was going to get my first $100 payout. I'm not the only one. You can't dispute with google and you can't go back. They keep the money. This is why they're so goddamn successful: STEALING.
Shipley
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2090
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:13 am
Location: college park, md

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Thu May 07, 2009 12:00 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:And I've never, in my many years of receiving telemarketing cold-calls, been offered something worth listening to, much less purchasing.


The same is true for me of banner ads. Context-based text ads, yes.

I don't turn off all advertising; I simply turn off the ones I know to be valueless.


Me too. That includes banner ads for me. And for the guy who started this thread, apparently.

Fine. But you've taken your argument past "I don't want to see ads, and I don't care if it might harm the website" to "you're a fool if you think ads are okay."


I have done no such thing. I have merely pointed out the diminishing returns on banner ads, the highly unethical past behavior of banner ads on the Internet as a whole, and suggested that they are not a viable foundation of a good business plan. In other words, I've disputed the notion that turning off banner ads makes me accountable for the demise of TDP (should it happen).
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby narcoleptish » Sat May 09, 2009 2:11 pm

I click on TDPF and the index screen pops up. My mind sends a simple command to the index finger on my right hand to bend slightly, turning the wheel on my mouse and scrolling the page down. I scan the page, ads on the right, the forum on the left. My eyes go to the forum.

It's a very challenging process, but goddamnit I get up every day and I do it! My father before me had to open the main door AND the screen door to get his paper, and prior to 1986 he also got up from his chair to change the channel. That's the kind of stock I come from.


I sat for several minutes and tried to think of what the next rung on the human ladder of laziness could possibly be. I came up blank. We're descending this ladder of course, wouldn't want to exert any energy.
narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby MeLurkyLongTime » Sun May 10, 2009 11:01 am

narcoleptish wrote:I sat for several minutes and tried to think of what the next rung on the human ladder of laziness could possibly be. I came up blank. We're descending this ladder of course, wouldn't want to exert any energy.


You do know that Depends aren't just for people with bladder control problems, right?
MeLurkyLongTime
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby narcoleptish » Sun May 10, 2009 11:41 am

MeLurkyLongTime wrote:
narcoleptish wrote:I sat for several minutes and tried to think of what the next rung on the human ladder of laziness could possibly be. I came up blank. We're descending this ladder of course, wouldn't want to exert any energy.


You do know that Depends aren't just for people with bladder control problems, right?



Shhhhhhhhhhh.. What happens in aisle 5, stays in aisle 5.
narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby TAsunder » Mon May 11, 2009 9:03 am

narcoleptish wrote:I click on TDPF and the index screen pops up. My mind sends a simple command to the index finger on my right hand to bend slightly, turning the wheel on my mouse and scrolling the page down. I scan the page, ads on the right, the forum on the left. My eyes go to the forum.

It's a very challenging process, but goddamnit I get up every day and I do it!


Great analogy. My great-grandfather used to run 7 miles to school as a boy through the cold of the pale of settlement each day. I come from that stock, and yet I use a bicycle. God I'm lazy. :roll:
TAsunder
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4781
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:21 pm
Location: Near East Side, Madison

Re: Web Site Headlines

Postby Chuck_Schick » Mon May 11, 2009 2:27 pm

I submit to y'all that threads like this one, which despite it's brain-atrophying thesis has miraculously generated about 10 times the discussion it merits, are at the heart of why this place is about as exciting these days as the prospect of a blowjob from Amy Winehouse.

Jesus Christ ... STOP YOUR FUCKING WHINING!
Chuck_Schick
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 10385
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:41 pm
Location: back atcha

PreviousNext

Return to Comments on Isthmus & TheDailyPage.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


FacebookcommentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar