MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Wednesday, April 23, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 46.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

Ethics a-go-go

Who's making noise in and around Madison? What's new in the business of making music around town? Review shows and CDs here. Please keep all hype in Hype Exchange.

Should we give the money back?

no - so-and-so just learned a good business lesson
9
39%
yes - it's the right thing to do
11
48%
give it to the venue and/or soundguy as a good faith gesture after stinking up their stage
3
13%
 
Total votes : 23

Ethics a-go-go

Postby apollovox » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:47 pm

Hey yall -

Wow - I'm impressed. Ethical folks, all round.

Anyways, I was gonna delete this thing, but it won't let me. So, um. Yeah. I realized after starting it that it may have come across a little cranky in places, but that wasn't my intent. Just thought it was kind of an interesting story for discussing. And again, for the record, all involved were cool and acting on the up and up - just one of those things where stuff goes awry and I wanted a little input, ya know.

The responses to this thread - all well considered - make me all 'aw shucks' about this often contentious public forum and music scene. Good people, and so forth. . .

. . .and again, sincerest apologies for anyone who suffered through that tune-o-rama the other night. I visit it in my nightmares. :oops:
Last edited by apollovox on Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
apollovox
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:13 pm

Postby supereightsnate » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:55 pm

hilarious. for all you know, the money will never get to "the bar" and will end up in the hands of the promoter. if you were to pay them back, does that mean you just played for free? if you don't want to keep the cash, i would give it to the sound-guy and let him figure out what to so with it. the venue people are gonna be much more relieable than the promoter people. and of course you left out the fact that you ARE LEAVING TOWN SOON; kinda puts a little spin on it all.
supereightsnate
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:38 pm

Postby apollovox » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:04 pm

supereightsnate wrote:hilarious. for all you know, the money will never get to "the bar" and will end up in the hands of the promoter. if you were to pay them back, does that mean you just played for free? if you don't want to keep the cash, i would give it to the sound-guy and let him figure out what to so with it. the venue people are gonna be much more relieable than the promoter people. and of course you left out the fact that you ARE LEAVING TOWN SOON; kinda puts a little spin on it all.


To clarify: the moolah-in-question was what we were paid over and above what we were supposed to get paid.

And yeah, I'm leaving. I could just pocket it and say 'and a hearty fuck off to you!'. But I got this whole 'culture of honor' thing. Southern boy, you know.
apollovox
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:13 pm

Postby Kyle Motor » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:14 pm

Tell the promoter to eat it. If they are professionals (HA!), they shouldn't fuck up with money. The promoter should go outta their own pocket at this point to pay the bar, they screwed up. Tell 'em you already used the money to pay rent. As for your extra cash, go to the bar and buy everyone a round or three. And invite me. Or buy drinks for yourself and leave some nice tips, it's your cash now. I highly doubt that if you gave the money back to the promoter that it would end up back where it belongs. If you still feel bad about it, call the bar and discuss it with them, let them know what the promoter told you. They'll probably appreciate the honesty, and in the off chance the promoter is trying to pull a fast one, the bar will be aware and think twice about booking shows through said promoter.
Kyle Motor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:48 pm
Location: Rock'n'roll crazy nights

Postby sunspot_mike » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:19 pm

Sounds like the promoter made an honest mistake. Hard to believe, but it happens sometimes.

You keep the cash, you're a thief. It's not your money, it's the promoter's. It's not your money to give back to the bar either. If this was a day job, you'd have to give the money back, the entertainment business might be sleazier and a lot more under the table but the ethics is no different and I'm pretty sure Johnny Law feels the same way. Everyone has bad days at work, no matter if they're in a band or they're in a cubicle.

Same thing has happened to me, probably at the same place with the same people because not too many promoters around here have employees. I had no problem returning the overpayment, what I did have a problem with was the attitude of the promoter. While his employee was nice, he had an issue with me writing a check (because I had already deposited the money) so he decided to act like a child about it. I went to the bank and got the cash so he wouldn't poop his diaper and his employee later delivered his apology.

Anyway, return the money. What goes around comes around.
sunspot_mike
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:06 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby apollovox » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:19 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:Tell the promoter to eat it. If they are professionals (HA!), they shouldn't fuck up with money. The promoter should go outta their own pocket at this point to pay the bar, they screwed up. Tell 'em you already used the money to pay rent. As for your extra cash, go to the bar and buy everyone a round or three. And invite me. Or buy drinks for yourself and leave some nice tips, it's your cash now. I highly doubt that if you gave the money back to the promoter that it would end up back where it belongs. If you still feel bad about it, call the bar and discuss it with them, let them know what the promoter told you. They'll probably appreciate the honesty, and in the off chance the promoter is trying to pull a fast one, the bar will be aware and think twice about booking shows through said promoter.


Like I said, I think it's an honest fuckup and not a fast one.

And we may have actually already used it - figuring that due to what seemed at the time like a good crowd for a thursday night we got a little extra - to pay rent. I dunno.
apollovox
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:13 pm

Postby apollovox » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:27 pm

sunspot_mike wrote:You keep the cash, you're a thief.


No, I'd be a dick. :P

Thief would be if'n I'd, I dunno, picked a pocket or something. At the time we took it thinking it was the amount we were supposed to be taking. If they had said, "Here's your hunnert bucks" and upon taking it we counted it and realized there was a hunnert-fitty, we'd a said "Hey, um, you miscounted." We were told, "Here's a hunnert-fitty." And lo, there was.

sunspot_mike wrote:It's not your money, it's the promoter's. It's not your money to give back to the bar either.
/...snip..../
Anyway, return the money. What goes around comes around.


Yeah, what goes around does come around, which since promoter-employee did such a piss-poor job of organizing the whole thing to the detriment of the concert-going-experience for all involved, is why I'm tempted to go hand it off to the bar myself. I wanna be an instrument of karmic justice or something.
apollovox
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:13 pm

Postby Kyle Motor » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:28 pm

I don't know if this holds any bearing or not, but is there any way to get in contact with the other bands that played that night to see if they were also "overpaid"? Sorry to be negative Mike, but if it's probably the same promoter and the same thing happened to you, well maybe the promoter should be questioned a little bit. People do honestly make mistakes, but man, if it really is your money (or somebody else's), then you are getting hosed, and that's a crime against you. I'm not saying anyone should release the hounds or anything, but it would probably be best to get all sides involved (band, bar, promoter, soundguy, grandma, whoever) all aware of the situation and on the same page, and then figure out a course of action.
Kyle Motor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:48 pm
Location: Rock'n'roll crazy nights

Postby apollovox » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:30 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:I don't know if this holds any bearing or not, but is there any way to get in contact with the other bands that played that night to see if they were also "overpaid"? Sorry to be negative Mike, but if it's probably the same promoter and the same thing happened to you, well maybe the promoter should be questioned a little bit. People do honestly make mistakes, but man, if it really is your money (or somebody else's), then you are getting hosed, and that's a crime against you. I'm not saying anyone should release the hounds or anything, but it would probably be best to get all sides involved (band, bar, promoter, soundguy, grandma, whoever) all aware of the situation and on the same page, and then figure out a course of action.


No way I know. . .they's probably in Texas somewhere by now. I'm sure they got their fee, and I ain't worried about them cause, hey, they were kinda dicks. Except their drummer. He was a nice guy.

I figure it's probably somebody else's money. But I'm not sure who's. . .

Of course, possession being 9/10ths of the law, I guess that makes it my drummer's dog's money at this exact moment, since Bhudda's the only one home.
apollovox
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:13 pm

Postby bobhemauer » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:42 pm

apollovox wrote:Of course, possession being 9/10ths of the law, I guess that makes it my drummer's dog's money at this exact moment, since Bhudda's the only one home.


That's our drummer's dog's money.

Don't ferget, the judge granted joint custody. (By the way, he's with me this weekend. And make sure when you drop him off, you don't just pull up in front and honk the horn like you did last time. My neighbors are getting pissed...)
bobhemauer
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:43 am
Location: 608

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:50 pm

Why don'tcha just tell the promoter to book you another show and take the money out of that event.
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Postby bobbyray » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:55 pm

You should tell the promoter that you accidentally overpaid MG&E the exact same amount, and s/he is welcome to go and ask for it back.

Seriously, though, while I think the promoter is being kind of a jerk to ask you for the dough given how little you were paid relative to all the cash that changed hands that night, you should probably hand it over just to break the cycle of assholedom. Or another idea: say "sorry it's already spent, but you can take it out of our cut next time you book us."
bobbyray
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:22 am

Postby bobbyray » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:56 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Why don'tcha just tell the promoter to book you another show and take the money out of that event.


Guess you're a faster typist than I am.
bobbyray
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:22 am

Re: Ethics a-go-go

Postby meowzamusic » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:35 pm

apollovox wrote:SO, played a show last week. Got paid. Now the employee-of-the-promoter-whose-show-it-was who paid us calls me at 8 this morning to ask me to please return $75 of what she paid us cause she accidentally paid us what the bar was supposed to get, not what we were.


Sounds like the employee-of-the-promoter-whose-show-it-was should get her ass fired for giving you the wrong amount. In all the shows I've played for promoter-whose-show-it-was and he's always been up front about money and always paid me what he said he would, so its ultimately his error in letting an underling do his job incorrectly.
But hey what do I know, seeing as I've not heard a peep from Mr. promoter-whose-show-it-was in almost a year. Every show he hooked us up with in the past has gone splendid and has gotten a great response--go figure!
I guess thats show biz for ya :)
meowzamusic
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:33 am
Location: Taking requests

Postby Dipper » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:58 pm

Well, I'd tell that promoter/employee that they're shit-outa-luck, but maybe if they get a little more practice, they might learn how not to fuck up next time.

I've spent over a dozen years dealing with all manner of promoters big and small in this town, and I'm always astonished by how many of them will take advantage of people's good nature simply because they can. Ask Henry Doane how he was asked to pay over $50 to print the Orpheum's logo on their own tickets. Or the sound guy who gets told at the end of the evening that despite coming through in a pinch, Tag Evers decided the sound was sub-par and he wasn't gonna pay the guy. I hate to paint some of you as naive, but promoters will prey upon your love of the scene to squeeze even the most miniscule amounts of money from musicians, venues, whomever.

You say your show sucked. Well, how many times have you received refunds from promoters because the show sucked? Or that the sound was bad? If you really feel that guilty about the money, I'd contact the bar and talk to them about it. For all you know, maybe the bar was given the same story that they need to give money back so they can pay someone else. Playing both ends against the middle is no stretch for some of these folks. And besides, if this promoter can afford to hire employees, they can certainly afford to pay a lousy $75 and chalk it up to experience.
Dipper
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:46 am

Next

Return to Madison Music

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


FacebookcommentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar